Adding a spur to an existing circuit on a BS3036 CU

[pepparz]

Time to be honest Lass.
You say you are an electrician but you list only add on type courses.
You are then a domestic installer? And not a very experienced one at that.
17th edition, pat testing and a watered down inspection and testing course dont make you an electrician and the basic nature of your question shouts lack of experience.
Are you actually working on your own or is there somebody to mentor you?
Why should we on here give you advice so that you can go and under cut us?


Boydy

why cant people on here give new sparks a break, everyone has to start some where. scared shes pinching your work is a bit pathetic to be honest.

 

[Silly Sausage]

i don't mind giving advice to the inexperienced.......


this way up.......

View attachment 22302

Is that the RCD Test button in the top right corner?

 

[electro-lass]

you need very little space for a stand alone rcd but if you really cant fit it in then either use an rcd fcu or an rcd socket and keep the cable surface mounted . don't just go ahead and stick it in anyway if it doesn't comply

It appears that there is a difference of opinion as to the sense of adding a RCD FCU or one RCD socket to a non-RCD protected RFC as per a previous comment by wirepuller. Can one of the trusted long-term commenters please advise why some would say it is not a sensible way forward?

Got to learn somehow!

 

[telectrix]

there are 2 ways to make it compliant.

1. RCD at start of circuit, as my previous post.

2. RCD FCU adjacent to the socket that your are spurring off so that at least your new socket and the cable to it , are compliant.

 

[dave274]

of course its better to protect the whole circuit but if that is not an option then you have to use other options. if the customer doesn't want to pay for it then don't do the job.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

It appears that there is a difference of opinion as to the sense of adding a RCD FCU or one RCD socket to a non-RCD protected RFC as per a previous comment by wirepuller. Can one of the trusted long-term commenters please advise why some would say it is not a sensible way forward?

Got to learn somehow!

Generally with a 4 year apprenticeship

 

[electro-lass]

Time to be honest Lass.
You say you are an electrician but you list only add on type courses.
You are then a domestic installer? And not a very experienced one at that.
17th edition, pat testing and a watered down inspection and testing course dont make you an electrician and the basic nature of your question shouts lack of experience.
Are you actually working on your own or is there somebody to mentor you?
Why should we on here give you advice so that you can go and under cut us?


Boydy

Yes, I did state electrician, maybe I should have said domestic installer, my apologies. I did say limited experience, which I think you'll find equates to inexperienced?! I wish I did have someone to mentor me quite frankly, but still yet to find someone in this area who will. In the meantime, I've got to put what I've learnt (and paid money to learn) into practice somehow - and who said I would undercut you? I'm probably doing the little jobs that someone like you would sneer at whilst making the lady client feel stupid - or even worse, ripping her off with your know-it-all attitude!

 

[Spoon]

Time to be honest Lass.
You say you are an electrician but you list only add on type courses.
You are then a domestic installer? And not a very experienced one at that.
17th edition, pat testing and a watered down inspection and testing course dont make you an electrician and the basic nature of your question shouts lack of experience.
Are you actually working on your own or is there somebody to mentor you?
Why should we on here give you advice so that you can go and under cut us?


Boydy

Don't quite see why we shouldn't give someone some help when we can. Its one way of learning new things. I have learned quite a bit from this site and I am always learning new things... which is great.

 

[electro-lass]

Generally with a 4 year apprenticeship

Point me in the direction of someone offering a 4 year apprenticeship and I'm there

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

location?

 

[electro-lass]

location?

In Hull

 

[BES]

Before you do anything make sure thr circuit you are intending to add to is in good order. As well as the other tests any good electrician would do before considering any additions to the installation.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

In Hull

There should be plenty knocking about we offer one out every July but your a bit far and normally the college gives us a list of names

 

[m top]

All minor works you do should comply with current regs 17th edition Only the work you do has to comply with current regs not the cuircuit you are connecting to, so the socket you are installing has to be rcd protected, your method of installation inline, rcd fused fcu,rcd socket has to be used to be compliant.
Testing do a insulation res test line neutral to earth,zs at socket you are extending from ,ring end to end test to prove you have a ring main to connect to and its not a spur,if all ok away you go happy days!!

 

[electro-lass]

There should be plenty knocking about we offer one out every July but your a bit far and normally the college gives us a list of names

There appear to be plenty knocking around for those in the age range, but for those who are older than 26, there don't seem to be as many opportunities that I've come across anyway

 

[electro-lass]

All minor works you do should comply with current regs 17th edition Only the work you do has to comply with current regs not the cuircuit you are connecting to, so the socket you are installing has to be rcd protected, your method of installation inline, rcd fused fcu,rcd socket has to be used to be compliant.
Testing do a insulation res test line neutral to earth,zs at socket you are extending from ,ring end to end test to prove you have a ring main to connect to and its not a spur,if all ok away you go happy days!!

Appreciate your detailed reply. I have already done continuity, IR and Zs at socket. Now just need to decide best method of installation

 

[telectrix]

and don't forget the 2 colours sticker on the CU, if there isn't 1 there already.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Appreciate your detailed reply. I have already done continuity, IR and Zs at socket.

Have you done your Figure 8/R1+R2 tests to prove it's a true ring/expose any spurs/interconnections etc.?
Reminder, R1+R2 will be virtually the same at every SO on a true ring.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

It appears that there is a difference of opinion as to the sense of adding a RCD FCU or one RCD socket to a non-RCD protected RFC as per a previous comment by wirepuller. Can one of the trusted long-term commenters please advise why some would say it is not a sensible way forward?

Got to learn somehow!

The regulations state that socket outlets intended for general use must be RCD protected. Where this enters into the realm of ridiculous is just the scenario you have. A 3036 board with no RCD protection to any of the circuits, and an electrician protects an isolated socket installed for a table lamp just to comply with the regulations.Despite lack of RCD protection and 3036 fuses as long as disconnection times are met and sockets are not reasonably likely to supply equipment outdoors,contrary to popular opinion the setup has been safe for decades and will be for many more. As already stated I would go with Tel's suggestion which will improve the safety of the entire circuit and be a worthwhile upgrade.
If that is not possible/customer declines cost I refuse to go down the farcical route of an RCD for one lounge socket and would just install it and label it "Not for general use".On the MW form I would state that the socket has been installed without RCD protection for a specific item of equipment.
Thats my take on it,many wont agree,nor am I suggesting it is technically the correct approach.

 

[Octopus]

The regulations state that socket outlets intended for general use must be RCD protected. Where this enters into the realm of ridiculous is just the scenario you have. A 3036 board with no RCD protection to any of the circuits, and an electrician protects an isolated socket installed for a table lamp just to comply with the regulations.Despite lack of RCD protection and 3036 fuses as long as disconnection times are met and sockets are not reasonably likely to supply equipment outdoors,contrary to popular opinion the setup has been safe for decades and will be for many more. As already stated I would go with Tel's suggestion which will improve the safety of the entire circuit and be a worthwhile upgrade.
If that is not possible/customer declines cost I refuse to go down the farcical route of an RCD for one lounge socket and would just install it and label it "Not for general use".On the MW form I would state that the socket has been installed without RCD protection for a specific item of equipment.
Thats my take on it,many wont agree,nor am I suggesting it is technically the correct approach.

Common sense I see. I agree and the muppets who write the regs need to go back and amend them so that the installer/homeowner can jointly agree what is practical