Caravan supply help..

[brianmoooore]

Youngest daughter has decided to return to the nest after several years of living in the big city, now that she is permitted to work from home most of the time. She's bought herself a mobile home as an office, and wants to set it up at the far end of one of our gardens/orchard.
I have to connect the electrics up to it, and this is where I need help. Not with the 230V stuff - no problem with that, but it's this data/internet stuff where my knowledge is severely lacking.
Current set up is fibre to property, giving a speed of about 60Mbps, into a BT modem, into a BT Wi-Fi router, which is in a property under renovation, so the Wi-Fi output isn't normally used. There are three yellow RJ45 sockets on the back of this router, one connected by about 15m of Cat5E to a Wi-Fi router in my house,, one connected to a POI injector, then about 10m of Cat5E to an outside Wi-Fi router that provides coverage to three holiday cottages, and one socket currently unused.
There is a trench being dug from the electricity source to the caravan, which is about 80m, and there is an internal route, through various roof spaces and sheds, from the BT router to the start of the trench, which is about 65m, so a total of about 145m.
The main question is, will the signal travel along this length of Cat5E or Cat6 without deterioration and loss of speed? Daughter's work requires a reliable and decent speed of internet connection, so it has to work well.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Cat5e twisted pair cable is newer and supports faster data transmission rates than Cat5.​

It achieves this by reducing the interference between cables making Cat5e the preferred cable of the network industry.

With it, you can connect your computer, networking equipment, and VoIP devices to a high-speed network.

 

[littlespark]

They run CAT5 for much longer lengths through factories, schools, office blocks etc. I don’t think it will be a huge problem.


The location of the caravan isn’t near a telegraph pole, or BT green box?
Might be an option for her to get her own line put in?

 

[timhoward]

The total length will probably work but it does exceed max length recommendations for a single length of cat5e or cat6.
The simplest solution would be if you could add a network switch so neither run is more than 100m.
The expensive ‘correct’ way would be 2 fiber media converters (£50 for pair) and a pre terminated 200m fiber cable (£200 ish).

 

[UNG]

The total length will probably work but it does exceed max length recommendations for a single length of cat5e or cat6.
The simplest solution would be if you could add a network switch so neither run is more than 100m.
The expensive ‘correct’ way would be 2 fiber media converters (£50 for pair) and a pre terminated 200m fiber cable (£200 ish).

It's not an easy task installing pre terminated fiber especially in an underground duct and any holes have to be made a lot bigger to pass the terminated through, I agree that the fiber option would be the best option if you can terminate it after installation

As an alternative I would look at using a POE powered Cat5e or Cat6 extender placed just before it goes underground or if there is a good line of sight a point to point wireless link could be another option

 

[brianmoooore]

The location of the caravan isn’t near a telegraph pole, or BT green box?
Might be an option for her to get her own line put in?

Over a 100m to the nearest pole, and about 2 miles to the nearest BT box, so I think this ones a non starter. There's also the small point that she gets free internet as part of her job, which I'd get the benefit of as well on a shared supply. Her employer is BT, although she actually works for the Police.

The simplest solution would be if you could add a network switch so neither run is more than 100m.
The expensive ‘correct’ way would be 2 fiber media converters (£50 for pair) and a pre terminated 200m fiber cable (£200 ish).

Getting too technical for my knowledge now! What's a network switch, and how does it help?
I was wondering if there's a fibre optic solution. I presume the stuff is impossible to terminate without very expensive equipment, so pre terminated lengths are available with plugs fitted (similar to the optical audio lead on the TV?)
80m of Cat6 SWA is about £180 or so, plus the 65m of 'ordinary' Cat6, so not a great deal of difference in the cost of the cable, although I suppose the fibre would need a duct, and then there's the convertors.

It's not an easy task installing pre terminated fiber especially in an underground duct and any holes have to be made a lot bigger to pass the terminated through, I agree that the fiber option would be the best option if you can terminate it after installation

As an alternative I would look at using a POE powered Cat5e or Cat6 extender placed just before it goes underground or if there is a good line of sight a point to point wireless link could be another option

Biggest potential problem with the fibre is that if it gets damaged in any way, I suppose it's a total write off.
Any links as to where to purchase the fibre and the convertors, please?
There's power available where the overground cable joins to the underground - it's right by the split phase incoming supply, so anything powered to 'boost' the signal is a possibility here. Doesn't need to be POE.
What's the practical difference between Cat5E and Cat6? Is performance likely to be noticeably better with the latter?
Wireless link is another possibility - distance would be about 70m, but there are a few trees that would need surgery. That's the way I'd be going, if there wasn't an easy, but long, overground and underground route available.

 

[DefyG]

Is a microwave transmitter/receiver possible [line of sight]?
We've installed a couple tplink 17km range with good effect.
Certainly more cost effective than running a trench for a cable.
www.tp-link.com/us/business-networking/solution/outdoor-wifi/

 

[brianmoooore]

Few bits of tree in the way for line of sight. Could be dealt with if absolutely necessary.
Trench already exists (or will do, when it's finished*) for SWA electricity cable and 20mm polythene water pipe.

*Been managing about 3m/hour. 6" of topsoil, then stony clay that's nearly as hard as concrete.

 

[timhoward]

Getting too technical for my knowledge now! What's a network switch, and how does it help?

It's what you use to connect multiple ethernet (cat5/6) devices together onto the same network. It helps because the distance measurement starts again at this point so ti can sit in the middle of two long runs.
Example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-Link-TL-SG105S-Ethernet-Lifetime-Warranty/dp/B07HP5TN4S

I was wondering if there's a fibre optic solution. I presume the stuff is impossible to terminate without very expensive equipment, so pre terminated lengths are available with plugs fitted

Yes, pre-terminated is available. As mentioned above it makes it harder to draw.
Example - ( not long enough for you)

100m Fibre Optic Patch Lead OM3 LC to LC Connectors - from LINDY UK

100m Fibre Optic Patch Lead OM3 LC to LC Connectors Cables & Adapters 100m (328.41ft), Pro AV Fibre Optic Cable Range, Turquoise, OM3, LC Male to LC Male, Cable, LSZH (Low Smoke Zero Halogen), LC TO LC, Multimode, OM3 (50/125) @ LINDY. The UKs leading HDMI Cable, USB Cable and FireWire Cable...

www.lindy.co.uk

To match the media converter I linked to below you are looking for LC pre-terminated fiber. LC is the connector type.

Biggest potential problem with the fibre is that if it gets damaged in any way, I suppose it's a total write off.

Yep. Consider over-size ducting with a draw line left in.

Any links as to where to purchase the fibre and the convertors, please?

Here is an example that is ready to go.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07B65K9L9

Make sure the termination style matches the fiber termination style. "LC" in this case.

Note that some have an empty SFP port ready to accept an adaptor to suit the fiber termination style.
These are best avoided. Here is an example to avoid:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07B69K424

Note the big hole where it says SFP

There's power available where the overground cable joins to the underground - it's right by the split phase incoming supply, so anything powered to 'boost' the signal is a possibility here.

Back to network switch, as above.

What's the practical difference between Cat5E and Cat6

For your application, nothing, as you won't be running at the 10gbps that Cat6 allows.

Line of sight is simplest but can be rather expensive.

Hope that helps.
Tim

 

[pc1966]

Getting too technical for my knowledge now! What's a network switch, and how does it help?

A switch basically acts as a data relay, it is slightly more complicated in that it "learns" of what is on each port so data is routed from device to device and not simple echoed out to everyone.

Here it is not the switching aspect that helps, but that it decodes the signal on the cables and then re-encodes it for onward transmission so you can get a longer distance.

But it needs power.

If it were me I would look at putting in some fibre as it is not too expenaive and gives you unlimited bandwidth for the future. You might only be getting 60Mbit from BT or whatever now but that might go up and/or you might end up with some storage for video, etc, in the home your daughter wants to access.