Certificate to check earth arrangements.. ?

[Jaxo]

The town I live in has been getting old metallic water pipes replaced with plastic, the water board has issued everyone with letters recommending "that you have your electrical earthing arrangements checked as it is possible, particularly for older properties with metallic service pipes that the pipe is used as a means of earthing for some or all of the electrical installation."

What I`m wondering is what way would you check this and what certificate if any would you issue for checking the earthing arrangements.

Would you simply check the supply's earth or electrode and recommend an EICR if its due or would you check the whole earthing arrangements and issue a certificate.. If so Would you use an EICR and state it covers the earthing arrangements only, a minor works or could you even use use own letterheaded letter to say the earthing arrangements has been checked etc.

Obviously the best thing to do would be a periodic on the whole installation, but Ive been getting a few calls about this with people just wanting the "earth checked".. and I`m just wondering what way others would go about this..

 

[trev]

I think I'd arrange an EICR with limitations on everything except the Ze and earthing arrangement.

 

[Farmelectrics]

Well you could do a ze test for starters

 

[trev]

Well you could do a ze test for starters

I think the question was more along the lines of how would you put it down on a cert though.

 

[Farmelectrics]

Ok trev read the question properly lol

 

[trev]

Yes, I see it now

 

[Jaxo]

Well you could do a ze test for starters

Really, thats a good idea... there was me with a set of christmas tree lights connecting them between the main fuse and earth to see if they light up.. where can i buy a zetester then lol?

 

[Jaxo]

also I think I would start by agreeing to do the job... dont how i could manage to jump from a phone call to be doing a ze test in someones house lol.. rrr:

 

[ferg]

I think I'd arrange an EICR with limitations on everything except the Ze and earthing arrangement.

If certification was necessary then this is good but do you really need to issue a cert for checking the earthing arrangement?

 

[trev]

If certification was necessary then this is good but do you really need to issue a cert for checking the earthing arrangement?

Of course not but why not issue a proper report in the EICR format? It's less likely to get put away in that special safe place that no one ever finds again

 

[Jaxo]

If certification was necessary then this is good but do you really need to issue a cert for checking the earthing arrangement?

Im unsure if its actually needed or not.. filling 8 pages for a earth loop test seems a bit off putting. Basically what Ive thought of doing is a ze test to see if the installation relies on the water pipes for its earth and if changing the pipe is going to effect their current arrangement, check bonding and advice on any probs and recommend a full eicr.. would this be enough though

 

[trev]

Ok then, do it by letter/email. Go along, check the Ze then stick it in writing.
No 8 pages and the client gets what he/she wanted to know, you get some money and everyone's happy.

 

[Jaxo]

but why not issue a proper report in the EICR format?

TBH, Its a time thing.. There might be 000`s to do, thats a lot of EICRs to fill out

 

[trev]

Dear Mr/Mrs client
I write to confirm the earthing arrangement is TT/TN-S/TN-C-S (ddelete as appropriate and the external earth loop impedance reading is X.
Now giz ya cheque!
lots of love
Jaxo


there you go, job done

 

[ferg]

TBH, Its a time thing.. There might be 000`s to do, thats a lot of EICRs to fill out

Sadly I'm almost certain that most of those letters will be filed in the round filing cabinet

 

[Engineer54]

Just a thought here....

I'm sure one of you clever buggers with the right program can knock up a decent enough looking Earthing and Bonding certificate with appropriate statements and showing tests conducted and the values obtained. It's no good just conducting a Ze test, it'll need to show Ze, Zs (Zdb), and main Bonding tests, where applicable.

It could then be put in the Sticky's for anyone to use as and when needed....

 

[NickD]

Unless I'm missing something here...if you inspect the DNO's supply head and it's TNS or TNCS, then means of earthing is via the cable (either sheath/whatever, something not your problem anyway, or a PEN conductor) and adequate means of earthing is part of the DNO's responsibility - and it's difficult to see how they would have relied on pipework for that anyhow, please tell me they wouldn't have ever relied on nearby pipework for the PME earth points?

If you inspect and it's TT then visually satisfy yourself that it's a pukka rod, then again you would have thought that pipes changing to plastic would be neither here nor there. If it's a pipe, then yeah, there's a concern.

Agreed that the obvious answer would be to do a Ze test at the origin seeing as you're at the property anyway, and my initial inclination would be to write it up on a minor works form, call the minor work "Testing of means of earthing at client's request". Just my 2p's.

 

[Engineer54]

Unless I'm missing something here...if you inspect the DNO's supply head and it's TNS or TNCS, then means of earthing is via the cable (either sheath/whatever, something not your problem anyway, or a PEN conductor) and adequate means of earthing is part of the DNO's responsibility - and it's difficult to see how they would have relied on pipework for that anyhow, please tell me they wouldn't have ever relied on nearby pipework for the PME earth points?

If you inspect and it's TT then visually satisfy yourself that it's a pukka rod, then again you would have thought that pipes changing to plastic would be neither here nor there. If it's a pipe, then yeah, there's a concern.

Agreed that the obvious answer would be to do a Ze test at the origin seeing as you're at the property anyway, and my initial inclination would be to write it up on a minor works form, call the minor work "Testing of means of earthing at client's request". Just my 2p's.

I think the OP is talking about the very old properties that at that time, were often using the main water pipe as the installation earth. And yes they DO still exist, although agueably diminishing rapidly as those older properties are being rewired etc....

An installations earthing point is ''Only'' the DNO's responsibility, IF and ony if an earthing provision was origionally provided by the DNO or earlier Regional electricity boards, otherwise it's the property owners responsibility!!

 

[NickD]

I think the OP is talking about the very old properties that at that time, were often using the main water pipe as the installation earth. And yes they DO still exist, although agueably diminishing rapidly as those older properties are being rewired etc....

That's my point. I can't believe that many clients will be phoning up saying "Yeah my means of earthing is the water pipe so I need your help". Isn't it the case that if you visually check and the system is TNS, TNCS, or TT via pukka earth rod, it's very difficult to see how this move to plastic pipes can affect anything?

An installations earthing point is ''Only'' the DNO's responsibility, IF and ony if an earthing provision was origionally provided by the DNO or earlier Regional electricity boards, otherwise it's the property owners responsibility!!

Again that's my point, if means of earthing comes up the cable a la TNS or TNCS then it's the DNO's responsibility/problem, right?

 

[NJG28]

Agreed that the obvious answer would be to do a Ze test at the origin seeing as you're at the property anyway, and my initial inclination would be to write it up on a minor works form, call the minor work "Testing of means of earthing at client's request". Just my 2p's.

Surely MWC is inappropriate as you haven't designed or installed owt. The only cert applicable would be EICR limited to eathing /bonding.
Not that I would issue cert in these circs unless client insisted (unlikely).
Simple record on invoice would do surely ?