Competency to turn off (condemn) circuits?

[jones750]

Hi there,

I am wondering how much power people have in the event of coming across a dangerous circuit. Do you have the power to be able to terminate a circuit and lock it off to prevent use, until certain works are met? Or do you advise the owner not to use the circuit? Are there any certain governing bodies that you have to contact to inform about these issues if come across?

thank you for future replies.

 

[KAS1]

Do not leave any dangerous circuit live IMO

 

[telectrix]

remove L and N cables from MCB and N bar. document what you have done and get customer to sign it.

 

[Jay Sparks]

I think you can turn off the circuit but I don't think you can lock it off as it is still the owners property. But I would try and obtain permission from the owner to lock it off but if they say no, there's not much you can do except isolate the circuit and leave.

Jay

 

[Knobhead]

You have no statuary rights whatsoever. Some agencies do such as the DNO and the likes of the HSE or M&Q inspectors, I’ve seen them in action. They have the power and they know it.

Disconnecting the circuit leaves you wide open to accusations of bullying a customer in to having work done. Added to which it’s not your property.

Switch off, inform the customer and walk away. What they do afterwards isn’t your concern.

 

[KAS1]

If you knowingly leave a dangerous circuit live and someone gets hurt............. on your head be It as they say, how could you justify it ?

 

[snowhead]

To sumarise the above;

If you find a dangerous circuit, piece of equipment etc.
INFORM THE CUSTOMER unless it is immediately life or property threatening i.e likey to catch fire before you can speak to someone.

If the customer agrees, isolate, disconnect or lock off, only what the customer agrees to.
Document it and get it signed.

If the customer disagrees, get them to sign to say so.
If they refuse you have other actions to perform.

The Gas regs have a greater legal standing than the 17th Electrical, but as a Gasafe registered person I have no legal power to turn off or disconnect a gas supply without the owners permission.


,

 

[7029 dave]

Disconnect and isolate IMO, inform customer naturally, if somebody is killed because all you have done is turned off circuit down to you isn't it?, you know they will have it back on again!!.

 

[Kate]

You can download an official document that says about the dangers. Would cover your --- if customer doesnt pay attention.

 

[snowhead]

if somebody is killed because all you have done is turned off circuit down to you isn't it?,

No it's not, if the customer will only allow you to do that.

The installation / equipment belongs to the customer.

 

[Guest55]

You have no statuary rights whatsoever.

this topic goes no further than the above statement , end of.

 

[Guest55]

If you knowingly leave a dangerous circuit live and someone gets hurt............. on your head be It as they say, how could you justify it ?

responsibilty for any installation remains with the property owner if private / residential , or duty holder if its commercial.

you inform them verbally and follow it up in writing , job done.

i'd like to see it contested in court those that think an electrician is responsible for someone elses crappy wiring for no other reason that they are an electrician and have seen it................

 

[BES]

If a car fails an mot due to having no brakes does the garage take the car off the owner or issue the correct paperwork advising the dangers of continuing to use the car.

 

[Plonker 3]

No it issues a failure certificate and wont have a valid MOT which you will get arrested for, a dangerous circuit would be a civil case. 2 completely different things.

 

[Andy78]

I am in the camp that would have no problem in locking off/disconnecting a circuit that had an immediate danger and/or threat to life present on it.
Most things found in my sphere of work can be rectified easily and cheaply and I have yet to encounter a customer that would rather endure a directly dangerous situation rather than have it fixed. But if I did, I would make it as safe as possible before leaving it.
I know I may be leaving myself open to accusations of interfering with equipment that doesn't belong to me, but I would rather take every precaution in my capabilities.
I am pretty sure in most situations I could probably pull something out of the EAWR to back me up.


EDIT: Will return to the debate to see what slating I got in a bit, off to cook tea now...

 

[BES]

No it issues a failure certificate and wont have a valid MOT which you will get arrested for, a dangerous circuit would be a civil case. 2 completely different things.

Point I'm making is the garage has advised you your car is dangerous to use and issued the paperwork to say so that's all we can do as electricians issue danger notice isolate and if cutomer accepts this all ok if not put it in writing. If you disconnect circuit from cu what's stopping customer putting it back when you have gone. What you goning to do start ripping the circuit out the walls.

 

[a1colly]

Equipment is the owners property no right to lock/cut off. Issue written warning and if possible get customer to sign. If, at worst case, inform DNO and they may respond if a potential threat to their network/equipment.

 

[stevethesparks]

responsibilty for any installation remains with the property owner if private / residential , or duty holder if its commercial.

you inform them verbally and follow it up in writing , job done.

i'd like to see it contested in court those that think an electrician is responsible for someone elses crappy wiring for no other reason that they are an electrician and have seen it................

You make a good point, but if things were so bad and there was a chance of children in the premises being harmed if say a particular circuit was left available, I think I would side with the kids rather than the dopey parents and make safe.

 

[Marvo]

We're also not legally entitled to disconnect circuits if the property owner refuses permission but the way I look at it is if I disconnect a circuit with the owners permission to test it and it fails due to a dangerous fault then I have no obligation to reconnect it until it's repaired and safe. Not being allowed to disconnect and refusing to reconnect are not the same thing.

 

[Geordie Spark]

We're also not legally entitled to disconnect circuits if the property owner refuses permission but the way I look at it is if I disconnect a circuit with the owners permission to test it and it fails due to a dangerous fault then I have no obligation to reconnect it until it's repaired and safe. Not being allowed to disconnect and refusing to reconnect are not the same thing.

Ah here he is ....... the voice of reason.

What took you so long bonny lad ......... a sleeping elephant on the road??