Connecting a shaver point to a shower circuit.

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ChrisElectrical88

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Hi. I want to install a shaver point in a bathroom for a fussy landlord, but she only wants it to be used when the shower is on, not sure why. I am going to wire it off the shower circuit and cut down the cores so I can fit them all in 15A connector blocks in the loft. Is this ok? If not what regulation prevents thing?
 
Yuk!

For starters, somewhere in section 5 it says not to reduce cores down (will look up later). Second....how on earth is that meant to work in practice? So, I'll just leave a 10kW shower running whilst I nip to have a shave?? Madness!

If you DO end up having to proceed with this, what's wrong with just coming off the downstream side of the isolator in 1mm?
 
You stinking rotten bunch of sheep abusers...... go and pick on someone who doesn't have man flu and a half working brain!!!

:ack2:
 
Spinks said:
Hi. I want to install a shaver point in a bathroom for a fussy landlord, but she only wants it to be used when the shower is on, not sure why. I am going to wire it off the shower circuit and cut down the cores so I can fit them all in 15A connector blocks in the loft. Is this ok? If not what regulation prevents thing?
Click to expand...
lolffs....lol....
 
Spinks said:
Hi. I want to install a shaver point in a bathroom for a fussy landlord, but she only wants it to be used when the shower is on, not sure why. I am going to wire it off the shower circuit and cut down the cores so I can fit them all in 15A connector blocks in the loft. Is this ok? If not what regulation prevents thing?
Click to expand...
if replies tell you why u shouldn't, are u sure you won't do it anyway and ask for proof why you can't?
 
Rockingit said:
Yuk!

For starters, somewhere in section 5 it says not to reduce cores down (will look up later). Second....how on earth is that meant to work in practice? So, I'll just leave a 10kW shower running whilst I nip to have a shave?? Madness!

If you DO end up having to proceed with this, what's wrong with just coming off the downstream side of the isolator in 1mm?
Click to expand...

Can you back this up with any regs? I don't care what you say this is how I want to do it.
 
Spinks said:
Hi. I want to install a shaver point in a bathroom for a fussy landlord, but she only wants it to be used when the shower is on, not sure why. I am going to wire it off the shower circuit and cut down the cores so I can fit them all in 15A connector blocks in the loft. Is this ok? If not what regulation prevents thing?
Click to expand...
No problem, use 60 amp connectors instead and wire a bit of 6mm2 to it and feed your shed as well, no harm done as there is no reg saying you cannot, so why be a sheep and follow the crowd, perhaps to get your post count up? :biggrin5:
 
Spinks said:
Can you back this up with any regs? I don't care what you say this is how I want to do it.
Click to expand...

Well......on account of not being able to track down the reg that I thought existed about cutting cores down, then NO! On a serious note, where am I not looking?! Is it previous book and now been removed for some reason???
 
526 I think, had a look last night but it is way to early to start checking out the BGB today haha, something about correct connection of similar sized cores blah blah and 314 goes into proper circuits and not spuring everything together I think, that was yesterday I canny remember all the words now
 
you can't do it that way. you've already fitted a socket in the shower cubicle for her hair dryer. spur off that. don't forget the FCU.
 
And on a serious note, my BGB has grown legs and walked off, it was right in front of me last night for doing some cable calcs and showing one of the sparks not every friggin reference method is B (does anyone else get this?) come in this morning and its vanished!!!
 
Spinks said:
And on a serious note, my BGB has grown legs and walked off, it was right in front of me last night for doing some cable calcs and showing one of the sparks not every friggin reference method is B (does anyone else get this?) come in this morning and its vanished!!!
Click to expand...

Perhaps your 'ref method b' spark stole it...in order to expand his reference method horizons (every cloud....)
 
He doesn't need it, i give everybody a small testing folder with ref methods disconnection times all the essentials in to help them when the are testing. Once this amendment 3 is out i am getting a job load of GN3 and OSG for the lads, cant warrant paying nearly 500 quid now and then another 500 in about 6 months time though.
 
jaypp said:
if replies tell you why u shouldn't, are u sure you won't do it anyway and ask for proof why you can't?
Click to expand...

Thats the problem not one reply gave a sound answer why it should not be done.

We can take a fan feed from a lighting circuit (fused down correctly to manufacturers recommendations) so the fan comes on only with the bath room light. Well what if you only want the fan to come on with the shower ? Is this such a no no ?
Smoke detectors and intruder alarms are often spurred from lighting circuits. This is common practice.
is it only that the shower fan is not regular practice or is there a valid reason why not ?
it was suggested that dissimilar conductor CSA in the same terminal may be an issue but with stranded 6 or 10 mm with a 2.5 in the same terminal it would bed correctly, try it.
I quoted the reg regarding positioning of FCPD which is exactly what I suggested.
I'm all for taking the p**s but let's have some proper electrical input.
 
I'm all for taking the p**s but let's have some proper electrical input.but electrical input comes from supplier, and that's outside the scope of the beano ( sorry BS7671)
 
Ok let's make this really really simple.

If you carried out a domestic EICR and came across a fan spurred from a shower circuit and fused as per the previous post what code would you give it and why ?????
 
i'd give it a C3. as " improvement recommended IMO". that's not to say that it contravenes a specific reg. just that i'd like it improved.
 
Mechelec, thats a bit unfair.....I put forward quite a strong reason not to proceed with an extract fan connected to the shower.
These fans usually require a 3amp fuse (manufactures instructions) and in this instance the OP had suggested 2No FCU ie a fuse on the live and a separate fuse on the switched lived. This would effectively create 2 new circuits sharing the same neutral and as such is non compliant with BS7671...borrowed neutral
 
how is it a shred neutral when the fan sub-circuit is now part of the shower circuit? remember that a circuit starts at the point of origin. in this case the MCB in the CU.
 
Zebra Stripe said:
Mechelec, thats a bit unfair.....I put forward quite a strong reason not to proceed with an extract fan connected to the shower.
These fans usually require a 3amp fuse (manufactures instructions) and in this instance the OP had suggested 2No FCU ie a fuse on the live and a separate fuse on the switched lived. This would effectively create 2 new circuits sharing the same neutral and as such is non compliant with BS7671...borrowed neutral
Click to expand...

Sorry zebra you are right that would be a poor idea but my suggestion was for no run on timer fan only on when isolator is on.
see telectrix good answer above.

One reason could be not complying with the building regs on a new build.
 
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Circuit definition is 'an assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin and protected against overcurrent by the same protective device(s) therefore IMO the 3amp fuses are the same as two diffent MCBs in a DB sharing the same neutral....borrowed neutral...the origin for the fan is now the 2No FCUs
 
Zebra Stripe said:
Circuit definition is 'an assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin and protected against overcurrent by the same protective device(s) therefore IMO the 3amp fuses are the same as two diffent MCBs in a DB sharing the same neutral....borrowed neutral...the origin for the fan is now the 2No FCUs
Click to expand...

The supply would be to a fan wired in 4 core flex more than likely. Would you really be disconnecting any core of the flex without carrying out safe islolation ?
 
Probably not, but it still would not comply and anyway it only bites when disconnected..sorry the neutral that is...it could also be a blown fuse etc.but not a good design.
 
Sorry I Can't insert smileys on my generic tablet but believe me I am smiling.

i have been trying to encourage friendly debate and this subject seems to have rattled a few people.

Still waiting for a good reason though lol
 
mechelec said:
Sorry I Can't insert smileys on my generic tablet but believe me I am smiling.

i have been trying to encourage friendly debate and this subject seems to have rattled a few people.

Still waiting for a good reason though lol
Click to expand...



The problem here is what people consider 'bad practice'...

There is no 'bad practice' guide or 'good practice' regulation book so examples of 'bad practise' are based on one's:

Personal experience/opinions.
Something one has heard from a mentor that one respects (often in training/apprenticeship).
Interpretation of a regulation (admittedly not always entirely accurate).

There may be (technically) nothing wrong with what you propose, it just may be 'against the grain' in the opinion of many on this forum.

Bear in mind though - many on this forum (I will not mention names for the fear of swelling heads) are experienced and their view has merit, so when someone says, eg, fit a PIR to control your fan, take it as good advice!
 
That is what I am challenging hawkmoon, blindly doing what has always been done and hopefully I have thrown some ideas in to weadle out the ones who have an understanding of electrical engineering and principles and those who don't and just do what everyone else does with no understanding why. The reaction of some says a hell of a lot.

Would the pir supply be taken from the shower circuit ? Lol

Thank you for your sensible reply it is much appreciated.
 
Oh and for the record section 5 and 314 do not preclude the design either MDJ.

Please feel free to check it out. Maybe you could ask on a forum.

This is only leaves blindly following what has been done before.

It is funny when you look into something and push a bit, big holes start to appear in some once respected members knowledge. Spitting their dummies out only helps others to see it.
 
ZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZ ZZZZZ ZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZ ZZZZ.
Wake me up when it's over.

Boydy
 
I find this really odd that people are taking this personally. I think Mechelec is only asking to debate the technicalities not insinuate that this should be standard practice. Whats wrong with debate? Its how you learn new things
 
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