ECA and ESC announce major partnership

[brman]

A quick comment on all this. I listen to absolute radio a lot during the day and I have lost count of the number of times a day some advert has told me to use checkatrade or whatever to find a tradesman. If only 10% of those adverts were replaced with promoting Part P and an official register (whatever it is called) I reckon it would make a huge difference to the public awareness.
With awareness would hopefully come pressure from the public for support when problems occur which would lead to better policing of quality via the schemes.

So, if these merger leads to better publicity for part P and electrical safety then it is definitely a good start. If it leads to more confusion from the public then it is counter productive. Time will tell.....

 

[Spoon]

I really don’t know why I’m involving myself in this, I should be sat on the side lines laughing. But I can’t stand by and see safety promoted in this manner.

I really like this, I feel the same way. I really dis-like people trying to sell me something that they say is good, in this case in the name of Safety and Competency, when you know that are lying to your face, and there is a bigger motive. Money. As I have stated earlier, I am not part of any scheme, and this merger will not really affect me, but don't like hearing BS, and it has affected my opinion of NICEIC, who have gone down a few rungs in my estimations due to this post. I know I shouldn't be shocked and that they are a company and the main guys just want more and more money, but it just rubs me up the wrong way when they say its for Safety.
I also like Professional's comment in post 114 "You mean that you will answer the questions that you wish to, and ignore the rest as "unsuitable?" There are lots of good questions on this thread. Please can you answer the "Unsuitable" ones. I'm sure you are an intelligent bloke, so you know which ones are "Unsuitable"

I also haven't heard of your "MOT your home" and "Don't take the "P"" Maybe someone can start a separate thread on this and we can have a poll of how many have heard of these before this thread started?

 

[Geordie Spark]

I really like this, I feel the same way. I really dis-like people trying to sell me something that they say is good, in this case in the name of Safety and Competency, when you know that are lying to your face, and there is a bigger motive. Money. As I have stated earlier, I am not part of any scheme, and this merger will not really affect me, but don't like hearing BS, and it has affected my opinion of NICEIC, who have gone down a few rungs in my estimations due to this post. I know I shouldn't be shocked and that they are a company and the main guys just want more and more money, but it just rubs me up the wrong way when they say its for Safety.
I also like Professional's comment in post 114 "You mean that you will answer the questions that you wish to, and ignore the rest as "unsuitable?" There are lots of good questions on this thread. Please can you answer the "Unsuitable" ones. I'm sure you are an intelligent bloke, so you know which ones are "Unsuitable"

I also haven't heard of your "MOT your home" and "Don't take the "P"" Maybe someone can start a separate thread on this and we can have a poll of how many have heard of these before this thread started?

I wouldn't be too sure about that. An intelligent bloke would have had more sense than come on here & try to blind us all with BS !!!

Where is he anyway?? I heard a rumour he's locked himself in a dark room with a bottle of Valium.

 

[amberleaf]

In view foreveryone to see on the Internet . ( PS . don’tshot the messenger )

Reaction to the Electrical Safety Register

Published: 23 November 2012

Earlier this week it was announced that The ElectricalContractors’ Association (ECA) and the Electrical Safety Council (ESC) have created the new Electrical SafetyRegister

It was also revealedthat from April 1st 2013, the NICEIC and ELECSA willbe operated by a brand new organisation called Certsure in order to increasebenefits to its customers and give the industry a stronger voice. NAPIT
In a response tothis announcement, NAPIT (itself havingrecently launched its own voluntary register, Electric-Safe) has denounced thisnew scheme as “an attempt to monopolise the representation of the UKelectrical industry.”
NAPIT chiefoperating officer, Martin Bruno, commented, “Electric-Safe has been designed tocreate a single, industry wide, consumer facing brand and register. It is freeto join and open to all electricians who have been registered as competent -under any scheme provider. The launch of the Electrical Safety Register shortlyafter - a register which is closed to six of the eight UK Competent PersonRegisters - has distorted this concept.
“ The ECA and ESC have been working for nearlytwo years to form a meaningful partnership with joint governance over theNICEIC, ELECSA and ECA Certification schemes.
“It was a movebrought about by a need to bring the industry closer together. Government,consumers and specifiers of work always said that our sector was too disparateand that we needed to be more joined-up to promote the industry and the manygreat electrical contracting companies involved in it.
“The new jointventure does this - 80% of all electro-technical Competent Persons Schemeregistrants are now on the one register and are responsible for more than 90%of all building control notifications. The Electrical Safety Register is aone-stop-shop for consumers and specifiers featuring more than 36,000electrical firms registered with the NICEIC, ECA and ELECSA certificationschemes.
“ESC have, in thepast, attempted to create one register for the promotion of contractors fromall schemes, but were unfortunately unable to secure mutual agreement amongstall parties.
“The ElectricalSafety register was therefore developed. It costs nothing to NICEIC, ELECSA andECA members to be included and is the first of many benefits that we believethis new collaboration will bring to both contractors and consumers.”
Source: Electrical-Engineering


- - - Updated - - -

New partnership brings electrical contracting together
Published: 20 November 2012

TheElectrical Contractors’ Association (ECA )and the Electrical Safety Council (ESC)have announced the creation of the Electrical-Safety-Register.

In addition, from April 1st 2013, the NICEIC and ELECSA willbe operated by a brand new organisation called Certsure for the good of itscustomers, giving the industry a stronger voice to government and majorstakeholders on relevant issues.

The partnership willbring many benefits to NICEIC and ELECSA registrants. The first is the creationof the register, which will be the definitive searchable database of NICEIC andELECSA registered contractors, as well as ECA members, promoted to hundreds ofthousands of specifiers by the trade association and the charity.
“This partnershipmarks a new beginning for the electrical contracting industry.” president ofthe ECA. “There is strength in unity and this alliance unites the keyelectrical industry players - the sector trade association, the electricalconsumer charity and the leading certification body, while providing clarity tothe consumer and a consolidated voice to government on common issues.”
Speaking at a launchevent held in Londonto herald the new partnership, the ECA’s “ Last year saw the launch of the 2021 Vision,and that presented us with a number of challenges and opportunities. We spent alot of time talking about how the industry should get together and deal withthe issues we face. So I’m delighted to be able to announce a partnership whichwe believe will have a very positive long term effect on our industry.

“Today is one of the defining and historic momentsfor the industry as the Electrical Safety Register will help strengthen theindustry and give positive support to the electrical safety agenda and assistthe ESC in taking its messages forward to the public.” - Phil Buckle, directorgeneral, ESC​

“ The ECA and the ESC have got together tocreate the Electrical Safety Register, which will be a searchable database ofquality electrical contractors and will also include ECA members. But more thanthat we’re also creating a partnership and from April next year the NICEIC andELECSA will be operated by a new joint venture company which will be owned bythe ECA and ESC. That company will be called Certsure and it will be an equallyowned and equally governed company that will take onboard the operations ofthose businesses and run them in a joined-up and focused way. We believe thatthis will provide unity for the sector and simplicity for our clients andconsumers, and we also believe it will provide benefits for the contractors.
“These actions showthat we have listened. We’ve listened to government who want industry to solveits own issues, we’ve listened to consumers who want one place to go to findcompetent electricians, and we’ve listened to our customers - we’re united intheir interests and we intend to influence the development of our industry fortheir benefit.
The ESC’s directorgeneral Phil Buckle added, “Today is one of the defining and historic momentsfor the industry as the Electrical Safety Register will help strengthen theindustry and give positive support to the electrical safety agenda and assistthe ESC in taking its messages forward to the public. The formation of theregister sees 80% of electrical contractors in one place. That’s always achallenge for the ESC in terms of how we get the public to use a properlyregistered and qualified electrician. Now, we can help the public by pointingthem to this one place, which is well promoted, well supported and captures ourethos and values in terms of qualification and ongoing assessment.
“Funding is also achallenge for the ESC in these days of economic turmoil - we tend to relyheavily on our trading organisation, Ascertiva, but now, with the joint venturepartnership, we will see over the medium term, funding to the ESC increase.This will give us more opportunity to support vulnerable people, through grantsschemes such as our Fire Safety Scheme and our Home Safety Scheme. Over thelast three years, through the support that Ascertiva have provided, we’vemanaged to give out over £600,000 to other agencies to support the public, fireand rescue services and trading standards organisations, so this represents anopportunity to do even more for the community that we will live in.
“By joining togetherwith the ECA in this partnership, the charity can make the Electrical SafetyRegister the definitive place to find an electrician and that will help ourelectrical safety agenda because we can get out there and truly help the publicmake sure they get a properly qualified electrician and not use somebody whocould leave them in an unsafe situation.
The main goal of thenew partnership is to provide benefits to the customer, as Certsure’s CEO EmmaClancy explained, “This is a proud moment for all the team that has worked onthis partnership. Everybody across all of the organisations involved has pulledtogether and has been motivated by the vision and opportunity that itrepresents.
“The spirit ofcollaboration for the good of the customer has been fantastic. It is thecustomer that was at the start of this process and it’s they who are at theheart of the partnership we are building. The good news is that they don’t haveto do anything. To enjoy the same services tomorrow as they do today, they needdo nothing so in that sense there has been no changes - we want to make this aseasy as possible.

“This is a proud moment for all the team that hasworked on this partnership. Everybody across all of the organisations involvedhas pulled together and has been motivated by the vision and opportunity thatit represents.” ​

 

[amberleaf]

“However, while itis the same in that sense, it’s also going to be a lot better. We have ideasand a programme of benefits that we will be drip-feeding to our customers overthe forthcoming months and years, as this is a stable and permanent partnershipwith long term commitment. From the outset Certsure is going to be making anumber of promises. The first one is around promotion - we believe in the workof our customers and we will promote them to their customers in a number ofways, therefore helping them to get business and prove that they’re the best inclass.
“We’re also going todeliver excellent customer service by listening and being fair in everythingthat we do. And we’re going to help them technically and raise standards acrossthe organisation with our partners and within the framework operated by the ESCand ECA - we know that is something that’s very important to our customers andsomething that they very much value. We will also be providing simple, costeffective and relevant solutions to them to help them grow their business.
“There will be anumber of benefits to being a customer of Certsure. The first one of which isinclusion on the register which we will work hard to promote in a number ofways. We’re also going to harmonise fees downwards for those that would otherwisehave ended up paying more. Lastly, certainly in the early days, we’re going tooffer a free training course in a new area so that our customers can diversifytheir businesses in the way that we’re also growing ours.
“This is just thebeginning, and perhaps with a nod to the research that was launched last year,we’re going to become the building services certification business of choice.We’re going to help our customers grow their business into new areas whateverthey may be. We’re going to be there for them to offer that help and support aswe grow Certsure accordingly.”
Source: Electrical-Engineering

 

[Spoon]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. An intelligent bloke would have had more sense than come on here & try to blind us all with BS !!!QUOTE]

I think he is a great company man, and I really mean that. I have seen it many times before. Put the company policies across to the people, even when you know they will not improve the situation. He will go far.

 

[amberleaf]

Leading electricalassociations give thumbs up to Select Committee report
Published: 2 April2012
The committee willnow be recommending that all electrical equipment sold in DIY stores carriesa health warning that it is illegal for an unregistered person to carry out mostelectrical works in the home.
“Such labelling isvital to reinforce the important message to the general public that they mustuse a registered electrician to carry out electrical works in the home,” addedBetts. “It will also reinforce a broader health and safety message thatelectrical work can potentially be extremely hazardous.

“More must be doneto alert households to the dangers of using sub-standard electricians and ofthe need to complete regular maintenance checks on electrical circuits in thehome.”
In February thisyear Emma Clancy and Steve Bratt were among a panel of leading electricalcontracting industry figures called in front of the Department of Communitiesand Local Government (CLG) Select Committee to discuss the case for retainingelectrical safety as part of the building regulations.

Source: Electrical-Engineering

 

[Des 56]

May I say that re quoting the garbage that has been published by the Niceic seems to be a promotion of that garbage rather than informative and now wonder about the motive of a poster who has provided much informative replies in the past

I also wonder whether any negative comments or difficult questions given to the Niceic engineer (who's organisation has insulted the trade and especially the intelligence of the electricians that make up the trade) I wonder whether any questions that do not sit well with their ambitions will ever be given recognition.never mind answers

If the responses by the Niceic to the questions in this thread are too embarrassing for them to acknowledge
It's possibly time to let those who want to be brainwashed into believing this is not about money and self interest,to grasp the garbage and assist in the demise of a once proud occupation

 

[Knobhead]

AL, no amount of fine words will disguise the fact this is NOT about safety, it’s yet another profit making scheme to promote paid up members of the club.

Membership of a scheme is no guarantee of an electrician’s competence.

PS the links don't work.

 

[Octopus]

AL, no amount of fine words will disguise the fact this is NOT about safety, it’s yet another profit making scheme to promote paid up members of the club.

Membership of a scheme is no guarantee of an electrician’s competence.

PS the links don't work.

If the OP wants to put our minds at rest could both the ECA and NICEIC confirm the amount of applicants, over the last 3 years, FAILED their assessments, and by FAILED, had to do complete reassessments??

And at the same time reveal how many "dodgy" electricians they investigated for poor workmanship?

 

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

All – thanks for the comments – clearly the merger has gonedown well with everyone!!!
Seriously though, it has been interesting to hear the viewsand despite what you think we do listen.
This thread was set up so that we can be honest and open.Yes, we are clearly going to be NICEIC biased – that is part of our job – to promotethe NICEIC.
For those who are not with NICEIC I would just say that promotingour contractors is a key part of our work. After all that is what the fees helpfund. Does your scheme provider do thesame?
In regard to our past campaigns to consumers, and informationabout our work with the building regulations and training i have added somelinks below.
MOTyour home
ASK
BuildingRegulations
Trainingapprentices
In addition, i add some facts about the new Electrical SafetyRegister.
· Certsure now represents 80% of all Part P contractors in England and Wales
· Certsure now represents 46 of the TOP 50 electrical contractors in the UK
· 92%of notified domestic electrical jobs in the UK will be done by NICEIC/ ELECSAcontractors
· 8 out of every 10 domestic electricalcontractors are registered under the Electrical Safety Register
Anyway i think this will be the last post for now from me. Ido hope you have found this thread useful in some way.
Thank you for your views and comments – even the criticalones!

 

[Engineer54]

I see that NONE of the critical comments have been addressed or commented on once again!! Cherry picking of points to reply to, only reinforces the lack of, or no confidence in your company!!

Instead of spurting out all the above pointless piffal, how about addressing the comments that have been made towards the Safety stance of registering under qualified, under experienced, 17 Day/Electrical Trainee onto your DI register? Along with the many other questions that have been asked by many here and to date, blatantly ignored...


EDIT...
Haha.... Disappeared as soon as my post was read!!

 

[Spoon]

Come on Eng54 you didn't expect the guy to do or say anything constructive did you? He makes a very good politician... He talks the talk and you cant trust a word the guy says... You have more chance of winning the Euro lottery than of him addressing any of the criticisms put towards the merger.

 

[AP Electrical]

By the way when you said national advertising campaign I thought you ment bill boards and tv adverts, not pages on the nic website.... Or am I just looking at the wrong bit????




im now going to launch a national advertising campaign ( update my website )

 

[Engineer54]

Come on Eng54 you didn't expect the guy to do or say anything constructive did you? He makes a very good politician... He talks the talk and you cant trust a word the guy says... You have more chance of winning the Euro lottery than of him addressing any of the criticisms put towards the merger.

No, i didn't expect much from this guy at all. Just wanted to make it known to him, that he's not fooling anyone!! lol!!

 

[Octopus]

All – thanks for the comments – clearly the merger has gonedown well with everyone!!!
Seriously though, it has been interesting to hear the viewsand despite what you think we do listen.
In regard to our past campaigns to consumers, and informationabout our work with the building regulations and training i have added somelinks below.
· Certsure now represents 80% of all Part P contractors in England and Wales
· Certsure now represents 46 of the TOP 50 electrical contractors in the UK
· 92%of notified domestic electrical jobs in the UK will be done by NICEIC/ ELECSAcontractors
· 8 out of every 10 domestic electricalcontractors are registered under the Electrical Safety Register

92% of the job which were actually notified then!

How many aren't notified??

Are the number of notifications rising, declining or staying the same?

 

[Knobhead]

Leading electricalassociations give thumbs up to Select Committee report
Published: 2 April2012
The committee willnow be recommending that all electrical equipment sold in DIY stores carriesa health warning that it is illegal for an unregistered person to carry out mostelectrical works in the home.
“Such labelling isvital to reinforce the important message to the general public that they mustuse a registered electrician to carry out electrical works in the home,” addedBetts. “It will also reinforce a broader health and safety message thatelectrical work can potentially be extremely hazardous.

“More must be doneto alert households to the dangers of using sub-standard electricians and ofthe need to complete regular maintenance checks on electrical circuits in thehome.”
In February thisyear Emma Clancy and Steve Bratt were among a panel of leading electricalcontracting industry figures called in front of the Department of Communitiesand Local Government (CLG) Select Committee to discuss the case for retainingelectrical safety as part of the building regulations.

Source: Electrical-Engineering

For this to have even the slightest credence an independent national register is required.
The electrical associations are bound to give the thumbs up, it’s legalised robbery!

 

[topcat]

I check the site on friday it will not search for any one out side london on my computer and if you can get it to work why are all the nic contractors listed before elecsa ones and why are they not listed in distance from the post code put in my post code gave me people 20 miles away but not ones 1 mile away if its a data base these are easy things to fix before you go live.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Come on Eng54 you didn't expect the guy to do or say anything constructive did you? He makes a very good politician... He talks the talk and you cant trust a word the guy says... You have more chance of winning the Euro lottery than of him addressing any of the criticisms put towards the merger.

Aye .... here in Geordieland we have a name for blokes like this and it "sounds" like banker.

 

[Geordie Spark]

No, i didn't expect much from this guy at all. Just wanted to make it known to him, that he's not fooling anyone!! lol!!

I heard he has been previously employed as a Used Car Salesman.