Eicr codes

[bigbaddave]

Recently got the job of performing EICR for estate agent, now there are two of us performing them.

However one property in particular is a property that a member of staff is purchasing and then to rent out in Westerhope. The other spark has deemed it unsatisfactory for the following.

Socket for fridge inaccessible for isolation. Quoting for new socket along with fused spur above the worktop

Cable too small on cooker circuit.. Fed by 4mm cable on a 30a 3036. Its only a feeing a oven not a hob. However regardless of what the load is providing its protected by the 3036 then how can it be deemed unsatisfactory.

Main bond to water correct size but loose connection.

No RCD protection on anything, quote for new RCD consumer unit.

Quote for remedial - £550 + Vat. The above work will deem the install satisfactory.

After chatting to the guy buying the house he only wants the install to a satisfactory condition in order to rent the property out and has asked for a second opinion..

 

[ses]

Is the fridge freestanding or built in?
If its freestanding no problem
No rcd not a fail however good practice for a rental property
Loose bonding connection tighten it up
4mm cooker on 30 amp no problem as long as clipped direct and zs is met as far as i can see

 

[ses]

Was there supplementry bonding in bathroom

 

[thomas-1981]

Amazing how many people seem to think when carrying out an EICR the Installation has to meet current regs.

 

[bigbaddave]

Exactly. If every install had to meet the current regs then boy if be rich. Can you install me an outside light. Well I can but your 16th edition installed house doesn't meet 17th. It's £4k for full rewire and that includes outside light.

 

[bigbaddave]

Supp wasn't required in this case. Whole install was hep

 

[Andy78]

Amazing how many people seem to think when carrying out an EICR the Installation has to meet current regs.

You mean, amazing how many sparks think they can take the **** out of people unfamiliar with the regs to earn their crust, instead of providing honest advice and getting a reputation for such.

Bigbaddave, think you need to call the validity of this report into question.

 

[TaffyDuck]

About to start wiring 95% of the town I live in because all the cables are red and black, cant be having that! Loose Earth connection, it must have taken him longer to write that on the report than just to tighten it up. Sad

 

[bigbaddave]

About to start wiring 95% of the town I live in because all the cables are red and black, cant be having that! Loose Earth connection, it must have taken him longer to write that on the report than just to tighten it up. Sad

I did mention that one.. Had a bit of a chuckle with the guy about this.. Mind boggles..

 

[bigbaddave]

About to start wiring 95% of the town I live in because all the cables are red and black, cant be having that! Loose Earth connection, it must have taken him longer to write that on the report than just to tighten it up. Sad

Ha Ha can you imagine the work load if that was the case

 

[Guest55]

Code 2 for the loose earth bond.
Code 3 for no rcd
Code numpty for failing 4mm on a 30A fuse.
;-)

 

[oldtimer]

Amazing how many people seem to think when carrying out an EICR the Installation has to meet current regs.

Don't be amazed with some guys its like the old traffic warden syndrome get a guy who has never had power before put him in a uniform give him a handheld computer and all of a sudden he feels the power surging through his body.

I have mentioned this before a landlord got a EICR and was told it failed because it was not up to current standards ie no RCD protection so unknown to me he was talking about EICRs and I mentioned that although advisory to get RCD protection it was not manditory he then told me he would be persuing the spark for misleading hime under the trades description act . So anybody reading this be advised if the power rushes through your body watch out because you may have to refund jobs where you have failed

 

[odawire]

Recently got the job of performing EICR for estate agent, now there are two of us performing them.

However one property in particular is a property that a member of staff is purchasing and then to rent out in Westerhope. The other spark has deemed it unsatisfactory for the following.

Socket for fridge inaccessible for isolation. Quoting for new socket along with fused spur above the worktop

Cable too small on cooker circuit.. Fed by 4mm cable on a 30a 3036. Its only a feeing a oven not a hob. However regardless of what the load is providing its protected by the 3036 then how can it be deemed unsatisfactory.

Main bond to water correct size but loose connection.

No RCD protection on anything, quote for new RCD consumer unit.

Quote for remedial - £550 + Vat. The above work will deem the install satisfactory.

After chatting to the guy buying the house he only wants the install to a satisfactory condition in order to rent the property out and has asked for a second opinion..

No ones mentioned rcd for socket outlets, is it a house or flat? if its a house then Id say non rcd protection of the sockets is a C2, everything else sounds ok, I hope the cheeky sod tightened up the water bond before he left.

 

[oldtimer]

No ones mentioned rcd for socket outlets, is it a house or flat? if its a house then Id say non rcd protection of the sockets is a C2, everything else sounds ok, I hope the cheeky sod tightened up the water bond before he left.

So you issue a C2 and fail the property for having no RCD protection and on what regulation do you base this on because you could be sued for misleading the customer

Just to add new cars have side impact bars and air bags does that mean the garage has to fail all the cars that were built before these thing came out Think about it

 

[bigbaddave]

No ones mentioned rcd for socket outlets, is it a house or flat? if its a house then Id say non rcd protection of the sockets is a C2, everything else sounds ok, I hope the cheeky sod tightened up the water bond before he left.

Id only C2 it if was feasible to feed outdoors o

 

[MDJ]

No ones mentioned rcd for socket outlets, .

I won't have an RCD in my house lol

 

[Silly Sausage]

No ones mentioned rcd for socket outlets, is it a house or flat? if its a house then Id say non rcd protection of the sockets is a C2, everything else sounds ok, I hope the cheeky sod tightened up the water bond before he left.

Really?
And would you recommend a CU change if there was a 3036 board in place?

 

[odawire]

So you issue a C2 and fail the property for having no RCD protection and on what regulation do you base this on because you could be sued for misleading the customer

First off I wont be sued for giving my professional opinion, and im basing it on the old periodic guidance of socket outlets supplying equipment out doors, although I have seen other guidance that call it as "improvement recommended"

 

[bigbaddave]

I won't have an RCD in my house lol

loL LOL

 

[odawire]

Id only C2 it if was feasible to feed outdoors o

in a house with a back or front garden it becomes feasible IMO, even an upstairs flat owner might plug in the hoover to clean the car.

 

[bigbaddave]

First off I wont be sued for giving my professional opinion, and im basing it on the old periodic guidance of socket outlets supplying equipment out doors, although I have seen other guidance that call it as "improvement recommended"

Ah, you didnt make that clear mind you

 

[odawire]

no I wouldnt

 

[odawire]

Ah, you didnt make that clear mind you

Was a bit surprised no one else mentioned it

 

[ipf]

I won't have an RCD in my house lol

Just a double socket in the garage for me

edit. Just to cover what nobody else mentioned. lol

 

[MDJ]

Need to remember you cannot fail installations if they do not adhere to new regs unless of course it is generally dangerous, if you did every house in the UK over 10 years old would need remedial works :rofl:

 

[bigbaddave]

in a house with a back or front garden it becomes feasible IMO, even an upstairs flat owner might plug in the hoover to clean the car.

What a load of tripe.. How can you say a socket upstairs is feasable to feed a hoover in the back garden.. RCD protect the one socket near the door job done

If you take that approach you could argue every socket in the house could feed outside via an extension lead

 

[odawire]

What a load of tripe.. How can you say a socket upstairs is feasable to feed a hoover in the back garden.. RCD protect the one socket near the door job done

Its not tripe, that's why I asked if it was a house or a flat, In a house with a garden out the back and a driveway in the front, every downstairs socket is fair game to be used outside, If your so sure, why did you ask the question?

 

[odawire]

Need to remember you cannot fail installations if they do not adhere to new regs unless of course it is generally dangerous, if you did every house in the UK over 10 years old would need remedial works :rofl:

Well, its up to the individual sparks to judge each property as they see it, but if you go on the guidance available then unprotected RCD sockets that are gonna be used outside are a C2 recommendation

 

[bigbaddave]

Tell me where I asked the question?

 

[ipf]

Used to like tripe.........'till i worked in a tripe factory...yuk

 

[MDJ]

Well, its up to the individual sparks to judge each property as they see it, but if you go on the guidance available then unprotected RCD sockets that are gonna be used outside are a C2 recommendation

you mean sockets that may be used to plug in external equipment without RCD protection? and yes some may agree with you there, Code 3 for me.

 

[odawire]

Tell me where I asked the question?

It's your thread, or am I reading the page wrong?

 

[R G]

Their used to be a category which stated ....conforms to previous edition of regs , safety not impaired...

 

[bigbaddave]

Used to like tripe.........'till i worked in a tripe factory...yuk

I am the same with Kebab...

 

[odawire]

Their used to be a category which stated ....conforms to previous edition of regs , safety not impaired...

Yea that makes sense, and if someone called it a C3 I don't think it would be the end of the world

 

[bigbaddave]

It's your thread, or am I reading the page wrong?

Sure is bud.. Mearly saying there is a conflict beetween my EICR and the other guys at the firm.. His resulting in mega bucks for work that doesn't deem a unsatisfactory result.

 

[odawire]

Sure is bud.. Mearly saying there is a conflict beetween my EICR and the other guys at the firm.. His resulting in mega bucks for work that doesn't deem a unsatisfactory result.

Yea, I agree with you it is satisfactory, at most it needs a small rcd unit for the sockets or maybe not even that, there are other ways round it, its a hard one though, personally if I was in your position I wouldn't mention it to the agent as I cant bear any type of tradesman who puts down peoples work or business unless they do something really dangerous. On the other hand you also have a professional relationship with the agent and the last thing you want them thinking is you've missed something the the other guy picked up on, I think id maybe jokily mention that he was a "bit strict" on that one

 

[Guest55]

I won't have an RCD in my house lol

i'd love to carry out an inspection on your house mdj.
i bet i could stretch out the defects list to at least 3 pages
i give code 1's just for only getting 1 sugar in my tea - i'm that serious.
;-)
and i expect wife , kids and pets to wear hi-viz at all times.

 

[odawire]

you mean sockets that may be used to plug in external equipment without RCD protection? and yes some may agree with you there, Code 3 for me.

That's fine, however, I phoned the NIC tech line a while back when quoting for an EICR at a school and he recomended that all socket outlets not rcd protected should be a C2

 

[bigbaddave]

That's fine, however, I phoned the NIC tech line a while back when quoting for an EICR at a school and he recomended that all socket outlets not rcd protected should be a C2

When did NIC write the regs?? Is it still green ?

 

[MDJ]

That's fine, however, I phoned the NIC tech line a while back when quoting for an EICR at a school and he recomended that all socket outlets not rcd protected should be a C2

Yes these inspectors like to make up their own rules regarding testing of existing installations, I don,t doubt he did say that fella.

Mike

 

[odawire]

When did NIC write the regs?? Is it still green ?

Yea I know, just adding that FYI

 

[oldtimer]

First off I wont be sued for giving my professional opinion, and im basing it on the old periodic guidance of socket outlets supplying equipment out doors, although I have seen other guidance that call it as "improvement recommended"

I have got bad news for you , you and I are not professionals in the eyes of the law we are tradesmen so now that your feet are back on the ground you cannot issue a C2 for no RCD protection on sockets if the installation complies with the regs. Now you are correct about guidance or a recommendation so all you can do is C3 or in the old PIR C4 but you cannot fail it.

This is the very thing I am going on about were cannot force the customer to upgrade to RCD protection as a previous post says what would you do for a 3036 board we cannot backdate the regs the same as a garage cannot force you to fit airbags because new cars have them but older cars do not . This is not hard be advised that the customer is more savvy than you think thats why when I am asked I am honest and say well you are not legally obliged to change the CU in the property you are renting but it would be advisable to have this done along with mains smoke detectors but at the end of the day it is the owner/landlords shout but there is one thing for sure I am not going to get sued for misrepresentation .

Failing an installation for having no RCD protection to force the customer to put a new CU in is deception and will leave you wide open

 

[odawire]

Yes these inspectors like to make up their own rules regarding testing of existing installations, I don,t doubt he did say that fella.

Mike

He wasn't an inspector actually, he told me his main business was EICR's but I know what you mean, that's why I find this industry so interesting, so many things are open to peoples interpretation and its interesting how different that can be sometimes

 

[MDJ]

Failing an installation for having no RCD protection to force the customer to put a new CU in is deception and will leave you wide open

Very well said Fella.

 

[odawire]

I have got bad news for you , you and I are not professionals in the eyes of the law we are tradesmen so now that your feet are back on the ground you cannot issue a C2 for no RCD protection on sockets if the installation complies with the regs. Now you are correct about guidance or a recommendation so all you can do is C3 or in the old PIR C4 but you cannot fail it.

This is the very thing I am going on about were cannot force the customer to upgrade to RCD protection as a previous post says what would you do for a 3036 board we cannot backdate the regs the same as a garage cannot force you to fit airbags because new cars have them but older cars do not . This is not hard be advised that the customer is more savvy than you think thats why when I am asked I am honest and say well you are not legally obliged to change the CU in the property you are renting but it would be advisable to have this done along with mains smoke detectors but at the end of the day it is the owner/landlords shout but there is one thing for sure I am not going to get sued for misrepresentation .

Failing an installation for having no RCD protection to force the customer to put a new CU in is deception and will leave you wide open

,
I don't agree with you at all there, I class myself as a professional engineer, an theres no reasonable way I could be sued for my opinion, the electrical safety council best practise guide 3 recommends a C2 code. And im not forcing anyone to upgrade to RCD protection im just telling them the way I see it. Actually, if anything id be more worried about being sued for saying it is satisfactory when the guidance says it isn't. And in regards to smoke detectors, I don't see what that has to do with electrical safety.

 

[ipf]

,
I don't agree with you at all there, I class myself as a professional engineer, an theres no reasonable way I could be sued for my opinion, the electrical safety council best practise guide 3 recommends a C2 code. And im not forcing anyone to upgrade to RCD protection im just telling them the way I see it. Actually, if anything id be more worried about being sued for saying it is satisfactory when the guidance says it isn't. And in regards to smoke detectors, I don't see what that has to do with electrical safety.

So it's a 'fail' and that's it, eh?

 

[bigbaddave]

,
I don't agree with you at all there, I class myself as a professional engineer, an theres no reasonable way I could be sued for my opinion, the electrical safety council best practise guide 3 recommends a C2 code. And im not forcing anyone to upgrade to RCD protection im just telling them the way I see it. Actually, if anything id be more worried about being sued for saying it is satisfactory when the guidance says it isn't. And in regards to smoke detectors, I don't see what that has to do with electrical safety.

Sorry but I dont aggree on that one at all.. C2 if meaning a fail.. I fail to see how you can deem every socket without RCD protection a fail..

 

[Silly Sausage]

,
I don't agree with you at all there, I class myself as a professional engineer, an theres no reasonable way I could be sued for my opinion, the electrical safety council best practise guide 3 recommends a C2 code. And im not forcing anyone to upgrade to RCD protection im just telling them the way I see it. Actually, if anything id be more worried about being sued for saying it is satisfactory when the guidance says it isn't. And in regards to smoke detectors, I don't see what that has to do with electrical safety.

No it doesn't!

Read it again...only for bath/shower locations.

 

[oldtimer]

He wasn't an inspector actually, he told me his main business was EICR's but I know what you mean, that's why I find this industry so interesting, so many things are open to peoples interpretation and its interesting how different that can be sometimes

odawire failing an installation on a C2 for no RCD protection is not an interpretation its is wrong thing is like the traffic warden syndrome some people think they have the power of God they when they issue documentation they must stick to the regs