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  1. Jo.Forum
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    Jo.Forum EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    Hi I have recently purchased a 1970s semi detached house and had a full rewire and new central heating system installed by separate companies. There were a few things I was concerned with and am hoping to check with some qualified electricians before I bring it up with the electrician - I have no knowledge of electrics so for all I know the work might actually be ok.

    1. The new wires that have been run under the floor upstairs are touching the copper water/central heating pipes in places is this ok? I am worried about heat damaging the cable. If this is not ok how should this be remedied - would it be the plumbers who put this right or the electrician?

    2. I have requested mains smoke alarms be fitted in all rooms. At the back of the alarm where it connects to the mains the electrician has put all of the terminals in choc boxes (correct term?) however one smoke alarm just has the conductors going into the terminals with nothing around it - is this ok or should it be housed in a box?

    3. Lastly under one of the bedroom floors the plumber went through a mains cable so the electrician fitted a junction box. I was worried as I had read that maintenance free junction boxes should be used in inaccessible areas - should I ask him to change this for a maintenance free one. I did ask him but he said the junction box is ok

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks
     
  2. Jo.Forum
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    Jo.Forum EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    Smoke alarm attached

    terminals.jpg
     
  3. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    That connection of the smoke detector is appalling you should never have exposed wiring and connectors like that, "choc boxes" will not comply with the others because wiring from the detectors will still be exposed. They should be mounted on some kind of box to enclose it all or opt for detectors which do not require a separate connection from the detector.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    If he has used a junction box without maintenance free connections in a floor space this will not comply. Me I would want the whole length of cable replaced as this is a rewire and joint boxes should be avoided. Has he actually supplied Certification to say this is a compliant installation because as it stands it is not.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    agreed but the wires that come with the detectors are single insulated, unsheathed, so what can you do? i just fit line products "eggs", but then the hole in the ceiling is so large, you have trouble getting a fixing for the detector. think the detector manufacturers need to come up with a better design. maybe a terminal strip that T/E and 3 core/E will fit direct.
     
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  6. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    They will fit to a one gang cavity box but the best are the ones you hard wire direct, the name skips my mind.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    a lot of things skip my mind these days, but i blame dementia. as long as i know the price of beer, i'll let some mundane things pass.
     
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  8. Vitesse
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    Vitesse Guest

    Not only that looks like he has mounted the smoke alarm with just screws through the plasterboard! No fixings at all?

    On every job I do I am always removing choc blocs and replacing them with something more suitable. By the end of the week my pockets are full of the damn things.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. Jo.Forum
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    Jo.Forum EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    Hi

    Thanks for your message. Yes we received certification for the work. Another quick question if you don't mind.

    In the majority of places the joists have been drilled and the cable runs through these holes. In one bedroom however the cable runs over the top of a piece of wood and rests on the top of the plasterboard ceiling of the room below. I'm not sure if it hasn't been drilled because the piece of wood is very thin -its not like the wood in the rest of the rooms. Is this ok or should the wood be drilled and the cable run through or alternatively clipped to the side. I don't want to bring it up with the electrician if this is normal policy. Picture attached. Many thanks

    joistcable.jpg
     
  10. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    "Ei Electronics"
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    a bit slipshod there. cable should at least have a few clips in to restrain it. but it's OK over that noggin.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    The detectors will have come with a base as standard that contains a connector strip to wire into and the smoke head will fix on to the mounting base enclosing all connections.

    how anyone can f**k that up god only knows!
     
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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2017
  13. buzzlightyear
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    buzzlightyear Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    star command
    was it a cheap price !
     
  14. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    most come with a 3 wire plug in lead that you have then to connect to your 3 core and T/E.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Jo.Forum
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    Jo.Forum EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    I don't think it was cheap - £3500.

    Can i also ask about the mains wires touching the central heating pipes - is this ok or should they be clipped away from the pipes or can the pipes have insulation around them? If it is a problem is this something the electrician or central heating installers should do? Many thanks
     
  16. Specialist
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    Specialist Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South Wales
    Agreed Tel, but the bases aren't exactly expensive to buy normally.
    I use Kidde smokes, & bases are something like £1.50 a throw.
     
  17. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    What came first the pipes or the cable.
    Reg 528.3.1, A wiring system shall not be installed in the vicinity of services which produce heat, smoke or fumes likely to be detrimental to the wiring, unless it is protected from harmful effects by shielding arranged so as not to affect the dissipation of heat from the wiring.
    Reg 528.3.3 refers to any foreseeable operations carried out the other service will not cause damage to the electrical service or the converse.
     
  18. Jo.Forum
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    Jo.Forum EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    Under the floor in the bedrooms cable had been run first then pipes were put in afterwards. However in the bathroom - image attached the cable would have been put in after as the central heating company did not replace a section of the copper pipe in the bathroom - image attached. Thanks

    pipescable.jpg
     
  19. buzzlightyear
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    buzzlightyear Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    star command
    who was first in spark or heating engineer !
     
  20. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    £3500 for a rewire is anyone's guess. How many switches, sockets, lights etc do you have.

    I'm on an extension at the moment which is about £6k ....
     
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  21. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    If pipework was put in after, aside from the bathroom image you will have trouble putting any blame on the electrician. Personally I don't believe close proximity of cabling to the pipework is a huge issue. The smoke detectors is your major concern.
     
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  22. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    all depends who was there first. if the cables were installed first, then the plumber should keep his pipes away ( min 25mm). if the pipes were there first, then it's up to the electrician to maintain separation.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  23. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    that's an R.A.F. jobby. and i don't mean it's got anything to do with our glorious fly boys.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  24. Flanders
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    Flanders Regular EF Member

    Location:
    Tamworth
    Agree with others but should be simple fixes for the electrician, put a few clips in that cable running over the noggin, fit round dry linning box for the smoke alarms (the surface boxes look a bit naff) and put some lagging around the pipe were the cables are in close proximity , just a bit of basic snagging that should of been done at the time of the rewire
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  25. Ian1981
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    Ian1981 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    North east
    Normally through the base tho I've never installed one which doesn't have a base or is part of it like aico
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  26. Jo.Forum
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    Jo.Forum EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    Thank you for all your advice. I will ask about getting a round dry lining box for the smoke alarm in the picture. The other smoke alarms have a box taped around the connections (please see image attached) is this sufficient? The box doesn't seem to close properly hence the tape. I'm not sure what the boxes around the connections are needed for so was worried that if one of the reasons for the box is to prevent fire spread having the box slightly open would defeat the point....

    boxalarm.jpg
     
  27. Specialist
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    Specialist Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South Wales
    Hi Jo: Good pictures.
    When was the house re-wired ?.
    If you've recently paid for a re-wire, I'd love to hear your Electricians explanation for Re-using old cable.

    Love the Blue tape and the way the cable sheath doesn't enter the box.
     
  28. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    what old cable?
     
  29. Specialist
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    Specialist Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South Wales
    Apologies Jo: Forget what I said said about old cable, just viewed the picture on my daughter's laptop & the cable shows up as Brown / Black as it should do. It's modern 3 core, guess it's time to send this tablet back :(
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2017
  30. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    It's just all a bit lazy. Lack of pride in your work and 'if things can't be seen then they don't matter'.
    If the OP can take photos of the things she feels to be wrong then it dictates the possible standard of the rest of the install.
    Very most probably safe but with a lack of good standard.
    If the installer ever sees this, know that we are not impressed and as mother would say 'buck up your ideas'
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  31. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Any person who uses "choc boxes" I would immediately view as being unskilled, those things are only useful for filling skips.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  32. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    Just insist that the so called "sparks" replace the smoke alarms with ones made by Aico - then all the connections are within the casing of the unit and accessible...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  33. Midwest
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    Midwest Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Hi Jo. Concur with the good advice given. Some of the pics you've posted don't look too good (#2 &26). With the advice given, why don't you come up with a snagging list, and submit them to your electrician, and ask for them to be rectified. If the electrician declines you may be able to take it further, if he/she is registered with a scheme?

    The design of smoke alarms (ones I've fitted anyway) are poor for wiring connections, but something better could of been achieved in your case. As per cables in close proximity to non electrical services, achieving separation is often difficult to achieve in a rewire & re-plumbing, as generally not all of the flooring can be removed to ensure all cables/pipes are routed as such and clipped.
     
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  34. onions1066
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    onions1066 Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Nottingham
    Agreed this is rough bit nothing more than a snagging last is required. Easiest thing in the world to sit here and slate people's work. As for the cables over the noggin why would you clip these as they are under the floor and unless you are going to lift every floor board and clip every cable you are wasting your time. The spark was there first so the pipe can't be blamed on him. So we are actually looking at removing some choc blocks not exactly the snagging list from hell
     
  35. telectrix
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    telectrix Scouser and Proud of It Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    cheshire/staffordshire
    Business Name:
    Telectrix
    or a visit to specsavers. ;)
     
  36. Jo.Forum
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    Jo.Forum EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    That's brilliant! Many thanks for all your help and advice really appreciated.
     
  37. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    OP... have you received your final bill? Electrical Installation Certificate? and Part P notification?
     
  38. Jo.Forum
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    Jo.Forum EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    Hi, yes we have received/paid the invoice and received the certificate
     
  39. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    ^^ so no part P yet...

    As others have commented, you need to draw up a snags list and get them back to review......and agree actions .....
     
  40. Specialist
    Offline

    Specialist Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    South Wales
    After you old chap :p:D, all colours on this thing went up the ding. Rebooted & all came back ok but will contact Acer tomorrow & see if it's a known problem.
    Stupid things only 2 weeks old :(
     
  41. westward10
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    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Not sure the way those smoke detectors are connected is exactly snagging.
     
  42. Murdoch
    Online

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    OK... a rubbish installation list...
     
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  43. ChrisElectrical88
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    ChrisElectrical88 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Norwich
    Those smoke detectors generally are a poor design, but should fixed into a fast to fix box as previously said with some wagos jointing the cables. Could have atleast put some tape around em

    Edit: Also he has not identified the 3 core black and grey as line or neautral
     
  44. Rpa07
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    Rpa07 2000 posts - only 46379 behind Telectrix! Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Bristol
    Business Name:
    Ebenezer electrical
    I've always fitted the aicos so have brought the cables into the term blocks but I like that idea of the circular fast fix, you and @Flanders @Flanders mentioned. Would be an easy fit with the number of refitting holes they put in the bases.
     
  45. ChrisElectrical88
    Offline

    ChrisElectrical88 Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Norwich
    Are the Aicos the ones where it's still tight to get all conductors in the space and the slide the head on?
     
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