I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certification`

[chris murphy]

"Hello All",

I am slightly surprised that there were not some very angry comments on the thread about `Part F Certification`.

I have written some comments on there about what I perceive to be the situation in order to try and help the original poster - Shaun gold with the situation regarding `Part F` - the Building Regulation that covers Ventilation - obviously including the installation of Fans.

Part F requires that anyone installing Ventilation are `Trained and Assessed` in order to be Competent and in order to `Self Certify` / Notify their installations they also are required to be Registered with a Competent Persons Scheme.

I am fairly sure that to install Fans that they would also have to be Registered as Competent for `Part P`.

I am highlighting this thread because I hope that it might help other Members to NOT get into the predicament that Shaun finds Himself in.


My comments on that thread are NOT intended to Annoy Members in any way - But I had expected a `Storm` of incensed comments about `Part F`.


Here is a link to the topic that Shaun Posted about Part F Certification:


http://www.electriciansforums.net/e...ctrical-forum/63672-part-f-certification.html


I hope that reading about this may be helpful to Members.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Jonny66]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

Hi Chris,
If this means I need to pay to be trained and assessed, and pay to be a member of another scam organisation (under the guise of part f), just to fit extract fans in toilets/showers/kitchens etc, then they can stick part F up their governmental bottoms.....To be honest I couldnt give a ---- whether its the law, Im fed up of being leeched off by these parasitic schemes, course providers, assessors blah blah blah....I'll still install extract fans and part f can f off:waving::waving:

 

[electric will]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

So what are we ment to do? Who do we notify? Or are the fans we fit covered and tested when the new build is air tested?.

 

[chris murphy]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificate

So what are we ment to do? Who do we notify? Or are the fans we fit covered and tested when the new build is air tested?.

"Hello Will Pickard",


The situation regarding being considered `Competent` to install Ventilation - including Fans is basically the same as with `Part P` as I understand it: -

The operative needs to have been `Trained and Assessed` as Competent by an Approved Provider of Training and Assessment - registered to provide these `Skills and Knowledge` for Building Regulation Compliance in Ventilation systems and their components.

Having been Trained and Assessed / Certificated the operative then has to Register with a Competent Persons Scheme for Ventilation - for example CORGI is an organisation that operates one of these.

Regarding fitting Fans in a Domestic location as we know most of these would usually be located in Bathrooms - Shower Rooms and Kitchens - I believe that these are `Special Locations` with regard to the Electrical `Part P` Regulations so I assume that the operative would also have to be Registered with an Electrical Competent Persons Scheme if installing the Fans involved providing a new supply to them - ?


If the operative has fulfilled all of the conditions and are Members / Registered with the applicable Competent Persons Scheme - when they install a Fan / Fans they would then `Notify` their Competent Persons Scheme provider about the Installations [Fans and Electrical Works].

Then the Competent Persons Scheme would Notify the Local Authority Building Control Department that the Installations have been carried out - `In accordance with the Building Regulations` - by a Registered Operative and the Scheme providers would send a Certificate to the Client / Builder / Homeowner etc.


I don`t think that even the installation of the small basic types of Fans are exempt from these Regulations / Competency Scheme Registration requirements.

THAT SHOULD BE CHECKED OUT BEFORE ANYONE DECIDES TO PAY FOR TRAINING AND ASSESSMENT AND REGISTRATION WITH A COMPETENT PERSONS SCHEME.


With regard to whether these `basic Fans` would automatically be `Compliant` [with Part F AND Part L] - Unless they have been specified by a HVAC Design Professional / Architect so that the standard Air Flow complies with the `Air Tightness` calculations AND ALSO `Part L` of the Building Regulations - `Conservation of Fuel and Power` / Energy Efficiency - it could NOT be taken for granted that these Fans would comply.

The previous paragraph applies to New Builds where the Building is Air Tested for `Tightness` and for adherence to `Part L` - the Building Regulations covering the Conservation of Fuel and Power.


That is the `Brief Explanation` - I could not really explain these points in less words - I hope that this is helpful.


Regards,

Chris

 

[chris murphy]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

Hi Chris,
If this means I need to pay to be trained and assessed, and pay to be a member of another scam organisation (under the guise of part f), just to fit extract fans in toilets/showers/kitchens etc, then they can stick part F up their governmental bottoms.....To be honest I couldnt give a ---- whether its the law, Im fed up of being leeched off by these parasitic schemes, course providers, assessors blah blah blah....I'll still install extract fans and part f can f off:waving::waving:

"Hello Jonny66",

I would not blame You at all for taking that stance.

Regards,

Chris

 

[telectrix]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

give it another 10 years and we'll all have to be assessed as competent to change a frigging plug top.

 

[ExArmy]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

theres hardly any comments because everybodys pretending they don't know you have to notify installing fans. shh, ignorance is bliss!

 

[Swicade]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

you'll need to have PAT training to be able to change a plugtop AND also to be classed as competant to change the plugtop fuse.....if you haven't been PAT trained how can you possibley know the right size fuse to use?

Years of experience will soon not matter at all...just gotta keep raiding the piggy bank for course's and bits of paper.

Regarding Part F....does a certain scheme provider do a course for it yet?...if not it's probably not a requirement to have it yet, as we're all well aware if it was a requirement they'd have a course set up for it by now.

 

[chris murphy]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

you'll need to have PAT training to be able to change a plugtop AND also to be classed as competant to change the plugtop fuse.....if you haven't been PAT trained how can you possibley know the right size fuse to use?

Years of experience will soon not matter at all...just gotta keep raiding the piggy bank for course's and bits of paper.

Regarding Part F....does a certain scheme provider do a course for it yet?...if not it's probably not a requirement to have it yet, as we're all well aware if it was a requirement they'd have a course set up for it by now.

"Hello Swicade",

I believe that these requirements / Regulations have been in place since at least 2007 [?].

I think that there are very few organisations that are offering the Ventilation Courses / Training and Assessment and that might be why We don`t hear anything about these `Requirements` being policed.

As another Member posted a Link to Vent Axia Training on the other thread about this - there IS Training etc. available - But without bothering to check before I write this - I would bet that Vent Axia do NOT have Training and Assessment facilities all over the Country.

Regards,

Chris

 

[kingeri]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

"That's really annoying"

 

[chris murphy]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

"That's really annoying"

"Sorry".

Chris

 

[Richard Burns]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

you'll need to have PAT training to be able to change a plugtop AND also to be classed as competant to change the plugtop fuse.....if you haven't been PAT trained how can you possibley know the right size fuse to use?

Years of experience will soon not matter at all...just gotta keep raiding the piggy bank for course's and bits of paper.

Regarding Part F....does a certain scheme provider do a course for it yet?...if not it's probably not a requirement to have it yet, as we're all well aware if it was a requirement they'd have a course set up for it by now.

Just for you Swicade:
COMPETENT PERSONS SCHEME
Accredited Certifiers Training
Covers all aspects of building. only £230 + vat!

Napit and NICEIC also do mechanical ventilation!

 

[Knobhead]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

theres hardly any comments because everybodys pretending they don't know you have to notify installing fans. shh, ignorance is bliss!

Once your scam provider twigs on they'll be shouting part F from the roof tops!

 

[kingeri]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificati

Part F. FFS. In a domestic setting, it's hardly an issue, installing a fan in compliance with BS 7671, Part P and manufacturers instructions, surely this is enough, it's what we all do!

Edit: and why is it so different to having to comply with other aspects of the Building Regs, i.e. not drilling through joists in the wrong place etc.?

 

[chris murphy]

Re: I am surprised there are not more comments on the topic about `Part F Certificate

Part F. FFS. In a domestic setting, it's hardly an issue, installing a fan in compliance with BS 7671, Part P and manufacturers instructions, surely this is enough, it's what we all do!

Edit: and why is it so different to having to comply with other aspects of the Building Regs, i.e. not drilling through joists in the wrong place etc.?

"Hello kingeri",

It is the fact that `the powers that be` decided that Ventilation was required to be a Controlled Process - Controlled by the Building Regulations and Registration with a Competent Persons Scheme is seen as a requirement for operatives to be able to `Self Certify` / Notify their Ventilation works - including the installation of Domestic Fans.

As You can imagine the `Training and Assessment` for Ventilation systems in what is required to satisfy the Registration process will obviously involve far more than what is involved in installing Domestic Fans - hence the probable `2 Day Training and Assessment` - one would be required to `Learn` and then Pass Assessment about the `Basic Theory` of the correct Ventilation processes.

I can only imagine what HVAC Engineers would think about these `2 Day Training and Assessment Courses` - regarding it being possible to `Learn` the basic processes and possible anomalies of Ventilation in that period of time.


This situation is vastly complicated by the requirement that Ventilation - including Domestic Fans does NOT affect the requirements of `Part L` of the Building Regulations - Conservation of Fuel and Power - without being either Qualified or `Trained and Assessed` plus Registered for Part L Compliance How could it be possible that operatives would have enough knowledge to be able to ensure that their Work / Installations would definitely comply ?

Obviously when working on New Builds there are Design parameters that are specified and supervised to ensure that all the relevant Building Regulations are adhered to - as there are very stringent requirements regarding Energy Efficiency / Conservation of Fuel and Power - for example the `Air Tightness` of New Build Buildings.


Regards,


Chris