Install cert required if eicr has been done

[thomaspotato]

If i do an eicr before i change a consumer unit do i still have to do an installation cert after changing the board?

 

[The Ghost]

Yes.

 

[thomaspotato]

Why? The test results will be the same?
Seems like overkill

 

[Bob Geldoff1234]

Among other things,the new boards breakers,layout,rcd's,tails and bonding will all have changed since you did the EICR so even for those reasons then you'll need a EIC. As well as notify 'Part P' farce.

 

[thomaspotato]

I understand that but by adding what u have listed would improve the safety of the installation. Having done the eicr , you would know that the final circuit are ok and by adding rcd protection your maximum zs would be higher.
Charging for 2 certs to change a board wont get many jobs

 

[Strima]

Do you not include certificates as part of your price?

 

[Octopus]

Why are you doing the eicr first?

 

[thomaspotato]

Yes but time is money , to carry out an eicr thoroughly , type it up then change a board takes time. Never mind going through the same test again and typing them up

 

[Octopus]

Feeble excuses.

Do you not have certificate software

 

[thomaspotato]

An explanation as to why would be more constructive rather than trying to be a smart arse

 

[Octopus]

Not being a smart arse...

Just do as the regs layout.

 

[thomaspotato]

An eicr first to find out whether your installing a board to supply a load of circuits that are dangerous or can cause nuisance tripping etc

 

[Andy78]

If you are changing consumer units you should understand the requirements for certification for the job. This seems to be a problem of your own making trying to do a full EICR and a CU change in the same day.
You can ascertain the information required for swapping a CU without doing an EICR.

 

[Octopus]

If you take that approach every time ....

New to the trade?

 

[thomaspotato]

What regulation says you must do an installation cert after changing a board?
Good practice guide says you should do it but im only asking why i should Have to do an installation cert after i have done an eicr which is more thorough and i havent installed any circuits.

 

[Octopus]

Oh dear ....

 

[Des 56]

The eicr being a report on a existing installation will reference the protective devices that exist at the time of inspection,renew the board and its all changed
You are required by the regs to issue certification for all installation work carried out,this can be in the form of a minor works or a installation certificate

Reporting the condition of a installation that has been altered can in no way absolve you from the breaking of the regulations by not issuing certification
Reports and certificates are 2 different animals

 

[Andy78]

What regulation says you must do an installation cert after changing a board?
Good practice guide says you should do it but im only asking why i should Have to do an installation cert after i have done an eicr which is more thorough and i havent installed any circuits.

631.1

 

[thomaspotato]

Electrical safety first Best practce guide 1 replacing a consumer unit in a domestic premises
6.2.1
Check it out

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The reason we issue EICs when changing CUs, is because BS7671 requires us to do so.
Failure to issue said EIC would mean that the work does not comply with BS7671.
The reason people record test results for the existing circuits when they change a CU, is because they like to fill in all the blank boxes.
Of course if changing the CU entails replacing or installing RCD/RCBOs, then tests of the RCD/RCBOs will be required.

 

[ipf]

An eicr first to find out whether your installing a board to supply a load of circuits that are dangerous or can cause nuisance tripping etc

Why? After basic testing and checking before changing a CU, the installation becomes an EIC. If the client doesn't want a full test you just record it and advise one.

 

[thomaspotato]

I do installation certs for new board changes. I’m not looking for some robot to quote regs at me. By replacing the cu with an rcd board i am improving the safety so why?? Do i have to do the same test again to get the same results

 

[Andy78]

Electrical safety first Best practce guide 1 replacing a consumer unit in a domestic premises
6.2.1
Check it out

Also check out 6.2.2 and 9.1 from the same guide. They outline that an EICR is not necessary and that issuing of an EIC is.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I do installation certs for new board changes. I’m not looking for some robot to quote regs at me. By replacing the cu with an rcd board i am improving the safety so why?? Do i have to do the same test again to get the same results

If the original board did not have RCD/RCBOs, how will testing them give the same results?

 

[HomeCert ltd]

If you've already done a full EICR on the property, the only additional tests apart from identifying the new circuit layout would be the RCD tripping times. As you would have already recorded test results from your previous inspection

 

[thomaspotato]

same results only difference is rcd times. All im saying is does no one else think its a bit overkill to do the tests again. Regs are just a guide not an act

 

[thomaspotato]

And by just copying the eicr results proves my point.

 

[HomeCert ltd]

Even if you did copy the EICR results you would still need to issue an EIC and building control notification for the works carried out

 

[thomaspotato]

Even if i didnt do the rcd test and say the rcd was faulty, even with that the installation is still going to be safer with mcbs

 

[Andy78]

same results only difference is rcd times. All im saying is does no one else think its a bit overkill to do the tests again. Regs are just a guide not an act

Repeating the tests is a different matter entirely to your original question, which was do you need to issue an EIC, which you do if your installation is to be compliant with the regulations.
If of course you just view the regs as a guide and are not to be followed then you have wasted your time by even asking this question in the first place. Just carry on as you feel and ignore the regulations.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

same results only difference is rcd times. All im saying is does no one else think its a bit overkill to do the tests again. Regs are just a guide not an act

What point?

 

[thomaspotato]

I understand what we are told to do. I know that. I just want someone to give me an explanation as to why?? Not because the regs say but why in theory and practise does it have to be done

 

[HomeCert ltd]

Well you would still need to provide a cert identifying that the RCD's were faulty, when you've already provided an EICR which will detail that there was no RCD protection installed for the installation.

Basically, you should go back an test/certify the board change

 

[thomaspotato]

When i have already asertained the installation safe and have made it safer by upgrading tails , adding mcbs and rcd protection

 

[ipf]

If you've already done a full EICR on the property, the only additional tests apart from identifying the new circuit layout would be the RCD tripping times. As you would have already recorded test results from your previous inspection

It all depends on whether you've been asked to replace a CU or to carry out a condition report....the result of which recommends a replacement CU.

 

[Andy78]

I understand what we are told to do. I know that. I just want someone to give me an explanation as to why?? Not because the regs say but why in theory and practise does it have to be done

You test to verify what you have done is safe, and you issue a cert to prove that.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

When i have already asertained the installation safe and have made it safer by upgrading tails , adding mcbs and rcd protection

Hold up, first it was just a CU change, now it’s also upgrading tails.

 

[thomaspotato]

Ahhh, does no one ever think why something is done instead of just doing what your told

 

[thomaspotato]

Would u connect the old ( more than likely single insulation) tails back in?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Would u connect the old ( more than likely single insulation) tails back in?

Why wouldn’t I, if all I am doing is changing the CU?

 

[Andy78]

Ahhh, does no one ever think why something is done instead of just doing what your told

When asked why you were carrying out an eicr before a board change you referenced it was because the best practice guide told you to.

 

[ipf]

Would u connect the old ( more than likely single insulation) tails back in?

Extremely unlikely, I'd say.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The point of certification, is to detail what work has been conducted, to record appropriate test results, to confirm the work conducted satisfies the Regulations and to state the date the work was completed.

 

[thomaspotato]

Yes and did what the bpg said because the reasons they gave to why it should be done i agreed with because i want to know what the installation im going to put a new board in is safe. Doing the same thing again after i dont agree with

 

[thomaspotato]

Your not going to find many boards with 3036 fuses in it supplied by double insulated tails

 

[HomeCert ltd]

I think the main issue was about the certification. As you said your doing and EICR and not an EIC certificate. The thing is the works carried out has to be certificated and notified so the client has all relevant documents identifying the WORKS YOU CARRIED OUT and not an EICR which is simply a report on an existing installation

 

[HomeCert ltd]

I think the main issue was about the certification. As you said your doing and EICR and not an EIC certificate. The thing is the works carried out has to be certificated and notified so the client has all relevant documents identifying the WORKS YOU CARRIED OUT and not an EICR which is simply a report on an existing installation

 

[Andy78]

Yes and did what the bpg said because the reasons they gave to why it should be done i agreed with because i want to know what the installation im going to put a new board in is safe. Doing the same thing again after i dont agree with

Like I said then, just do what you feel like. You just need to inform your customers that your installations don't comply with the regulations because you know better that their silly requirements. They should be fine with that once you explain you just ignore the bits you don't understand.

 

[HomeCert ltd]

Not the best on this forum so think I've posted that last one a few times

 

[ipf]

Your not going to find many boards with 3036 fuses in it supplied by double insulated tails

Insulated tails with outer sheaths have been used for as long as I can remember.