It's getting worse

[sean_ork]

Threads like these are rather a sad reflection on our Nation ......

How come there's never such an upsurge of concern over the 1000s that are already dying ?

The scandal of Britain's fuel poverty deaths | The big energy debate | The Guardian

 

[Paul.M]

Ask yourself these questions ....

How many people will die this winter because they can't afford to eat properly or heat their homes ?

How many have died this year on the roads ?

How many will die due to a shortage of resource in the NHS.

How many will die this year due to the affects of self inflicted illness, through smoking and over eating.

How many will die due to the actions of a very few radicals.

When you've got the answers, when youve realized how many allready are dying in this Country through our inaction over things we really do have control over, then go figure out where our effects should be spent.

Obvioulsy the above only applies if you want to focus on maximizing the number of lives saved in this Country.

None of the above include a person or a group carrying out a premeditated attack on innocent members of the public in public places due to their misinterpretation of a religious book.

In these next few weeks I expect another attack or attacks on Christmas shopping centers. I'd like to see armed police walking the streets, if they are willing to murder any random person that is just in the wrong place at the wrong time, they deserve to be shot.

 

[sean_ork]

There's very little that can be done to prevent a nutter with a bread knife slashing in a public place, let's be honest and get real here.

Put the army on the streets if you think that would help - but let's not forget how 100000s are already dying in this Country.

We appear to have the money for bombs yet we cant afford to insulate old folks homes - that's more concern to me.

 

[GMES]

Sean this thread was started by myself because of a terrorist act that occured yesterday and in my opinion is just the beginning now I am slightly confused what your argument has got to do with it, yes the things on your list are true and very sad but nothing to do with isis which is what this thread is about, As already said are we just going to let them run around killing innocent people. Even if we could resolve everything on your list it would not stop a group of isis soldiers from beheading innocent people would it or am I wrong.

 

[GMES]

There's very little that can be done to prevent a nutter with a bread knife slashing in a public place, let's be honest and get real here.

Put the army on the streets if you think that would help - but let's not forget how 100000s are already dying in this Country.

We appear to have the money for bombs yet we cant afford to insulate old folks homes - that's more concern to me.

I think one of the problems with most people is they think it won't happen to them, what is to stop the terrorist choosing at random to attack your city/ town and suddenly you are slap bang in the middle of a fatal explosion or worse your loved ones suffer the same tragedy, would it concern you then. I am not trying to sound harsh I just think you need to accept that the current situation is very serious and is coming to a town near you so to speak.

 

[Darkwood]

Ask yourself these questions ....

How many people will die this winter because they can't afford to eat properly or heat their homes ?

How many have died this year on the roads ?

How many will die due to a shortage of resource in the NHS.

How many will die this year due to the affects of self inflicted illness, through smoking and over eating.

How many will die due to the actions of a very few radicals.

When you've got the answers, when youve realized how many allready are dying in this Country through our inaction over things we really do have control over, then go figure out where our effects should be spent.

Obvioulsy the above only applies if you want to focus on maximizing the number of lives saved in this Country.

All relevent points sean in their own field and each would in itself warrant a thread of their own to discuss but I feel these points are not really relevent to the subject in hand here, I somewhat confused here, what has the death rate is due to RTA's or eating too many burgers has to do with questions raised about arming our police to be better able to handle a terrorist event?
It seems you have some very strong political views here your bursting to share but if we were to start reflecting on each of these points it would totally derail the thread topic, of course you could always start your own thread in Politics and Economy section raising your concerns

 

[sean_ork]

Now I'm confused (not really) - we now gone from a disaffected Muppet slashing with a breadknife to the beheading monsters that are ISIS - isnt that just a little OTT ?

You do know that you are falling into their trap ?

 

[GMES]

Thanks Darkwood, I was starting to think I had come into a different thread to the one I started, I too agree that Sean has some valid points but I cannot see the connection between them and me asking if we should Arm our police force in the light of prevailing acts of terrorism.

 

[GMES]

Sean the breadknife muppet as you call him said that his actions were in retaliation for events in syria which unless they've moved overnight is where isis operate.

 

[Midwest]

Whilst the concept of arming every single police officer might seem a good idea against defending ourselves against terrorist attack, it is not practical. The training of a police firearms officer takes quite some time and requires monthly refresher training. Also not every officer would be suitable, nor would all like to carry a firearm, quite a responsibility to use lethal force. Best left intensively trained selected few. If you look at the U.S. where all law enforcement are routinely armed, still doesn't stop 'Active Shooter' incidents, and one this week where the armed police officer shot the suspect whilst he was on the ground.

 

[Paul.M]

I think one of the problems with most people is they think it won't happen to them, what is to stop the terrorist choosing at random to attack your city/ town and suddenly you are slap bang in the middle of a fatal explosion or worse your loved ones suffer the same tragedy, would it concern you then. I am not trying to sound harsh I just think you need to accept that the current situation is very serious and is coming to a town near you so to speak.

Just about to leave home and go into the city center to do xmas shopping. Should we feel scared? Will a nutter with a knife or gun (God forbid a bomb!) attack innocent shoppers. Millions of people have given their lives over the centuries for the freedom we have today. It will never be taken away by the actions of terrorists.

 

[sean_ork]

All relevent points sean in their own field and each would in itself warrant a thread of their own to discuss but I feel these points are not really relevent to the subject in hand here, I somewhat confused here, what has the death rate is due to RTA's or eating too many burgers has to do with questions raised about arming our police to be better able to handle a terrorist event?
It seems you have some very strong political views here your bursting to share but if we were to start reflecting on each of these points it would totally derail the thread topic, of course you could always start your own thread in Politics and Economy section raising your concerns

Much to my disappointment, there's not much I disagree with in your comments, but .....

Why are there no threads, on any type of forum (perhaps other than the green building one) calling us to arms (metaphorically speaking) to deal with those 100000s of avoidable deaths, the causes of which I've mentioned.

Yet theres plenty ready to jump on a bandwagon when a few random acts kill a few hundred ?

 

[sean_ork]

Just about to leave home and go into the city center to do xmas shopping. Should we feel scared? Will a nutter with a knife or gun (God forbid a bomb!) attack innocent shoppers. Millions of people have given their lives over the centuries for the freedom we have today. It will never be taken away by the actions of terrorists.

Well said, fear mongering without due regard to the real dangers in our society is also a form of terrorism.

 

[GMES]

I have also got to switch off for a while but will log back in later, what I won't do though is get into a debate about winter fuel alowances and the nhs, I started this thread to discuss whether our police force should be Armed and will happily debate that topic. If anyone wishes to discuss the other matters feel free to start a thread in the politics section.

 

[Guest77]

Leytonstone stabbing: Man 'screams this is for Syria' after horror attack in Tube station - Mirror Online

So how long until every police officer needs to be armed with deadly weapons ( Guns ) the officer in the video tasers the terrorist with little effect.
If we are going to expect the police to protect us in the fight against terrorism then surely they need the equipment to do so and also on a similar note I can see everyday civilians starting to Arm themselves very soon if things escalate with local random attcks like this.

What are your thoughts is it time to arm every officer in the uk,because while I don't want to end up like America and therir gun laws I also think it is unrealistic to send a police officer with a taser to face a terrorist with either a gun or an explosive device. please discuss;

I have already voiced my views, and again I will state we need to go into their backyard with troops, vet all men in the country, pay huge rewards to those who turn in the ISIS members and then deal with them, it may take 2-3 years of vetting to vet all 10 million men of fighting age but it needs to be bealt with and the united nations should pay for it via all countries in the UN paying their bit, if that don't work them high intensive bombing will have to be deployed, I know this will shock some, one or two members had a wobbler last time I mentioned this but history will tell you the way we are trying to deal with it now just isn't working, the syrian and Iraqi governments as well as Pakistan are not sorting it out, how many more of our innocents need to be beheaded or blown up in the streets?

 

[Darkwood]

My tuppence here is there are a few aspects to look at in better preparing our police, the actual effectiveness and the perceived effect, if you arm our police you increase the chance of accidental or misjudged incidents that end in the death of a member of the public, would it be a good thing to trade off several deaths against a once in a decade event (as it stands at the moment), also arming the police raises public mistrust and would create an even bigger barrier than we have at present between the police and the public, it has a knock on effect for tourism too, showing on the street level that we are under a high level of risk from terrorism does effect tourism and subsequently the strength of the economy.

You cannot stop all attacks and people will die but we also cannot run scared and hide in our cellars, we have to just get on with it and hope any major acts are stopped through intelligence as opposed to at street level during the event so imho arming the police because of a home grown loner terrorist would be a big kneejerk reaction here, we need to relax the snoop laws and let our Intelligence the freedom to follow these scum and subsequently use it in evidence to lock them up - at present we are still seeing protests from deluded idiots complaining about their right to privacy yet they would be the first ones complaining that our police force didn't do enough to stop an event from happening.

 

[sean_ork]

Whilst the concept of arming every single police officer might seem a good idea against defending ourselves against terrorist attack, it is not practical. The training of a police firearms officer takes quite some time and requires monthly refresher training. Also not every officer would be suitable, nor would all like to carry a firearm, quite a responsibility to use lethal force. Best left intensively trained selected few. If you look at the U.S. where all law enforcement are routinely armed, still doesn't stop 'Active Shooter' incidents, and one this week where the armed police officer shot the suspect whilst he was on the ground.

That's very true, its odd that the recent incident has been splashed all over our media, yet the in excess of 300, yes 300 ! mass shootings that have already occurred in the US barely get a mention.

That's over 300 mass shootings this year in the US, carried out by primarily disaffected white US citizens, using legally purchased arms - arming plod over there isn't helping, why would it here.

 

[Pete999]

My tuppence here is there are a few aspects to look at in better preparing our police, the actual effectiveness and the perceived effect, if you arm our police you increase the chance of accidental or misjudged incidents that end in the death of a member of the public, would it be a good thing to trade off several deaths against a once in a decade event (as it stands at the moment), also arming the police raises public mistrust and would create an even bigger barrier than we have at present between the police and the public, it has a knock on effect for tourism too, showing on the street level that we are under a high level of risk from terrorism does effect tourism and subsequently the strength of the economy.

You cannot stop all attacks and people will die but we also cannot run scared and hide in our cellars, we have to just get on with it and hope any major acts are stopped through intelligence as opposed to at street level during the event so imho arming the police because of a home grown loner terrorist would be a big kneejerk reaction here, we need to relax the snoop laws and let our Intelligence the freedom to follow these scum and subsequently use it in evidence to lock them up - at present we are still seeing protests from deluded idiots complaining about their right to privacy yet they would be the first ones complaining that our police force didn't do enough to stop an event from happening.

Hear Hear, well said far to much ----- footing around

 

[sean_ork]

I have also got to switch off for a while but will log back in later, what I won't do though is get into a debate about winter fuel alowances and the nhs, I started this thread to discuss whether our police force should be Armed and will happily debate that topic. If anyone wishes to discuss the other matters feel free to start a thread in the politics section.

I'll bet you've never started a thread about winter fuel allowances, odd that eh.

 

[sean_ork]

Hear Hear, well said far to much ----- footing around

I'm pleased to see you are now supporting an intelligent, evidence based solution to this issue, one that doesn't call for the use of weapons as the first line of attack.

Welcome to the club.