LED ceiling lights in bathrooms

[driverman]

Hi guys, I'm getting to the 2nd fix stage at long last. I've taken advice from this forum and decided to fit fire rated LED's throughout the house. I've never installed LED's before and usually in the bathroom I would fit a batten holder or a ceiling rose with a HO skirt on! Going back a bit! Question is, are there any restrictions fitting LED's in bathrooms? They are all outside any zone areas. However my concern is the one above the actual shower area. I'm thinking about the environment to which it and possibly others are being subjected to. Any thoughts Gents? Thanks

 

[telectrix]

above shower i'f fit an IPX4 or better, no matter whether it's in a zone or not.

 

[Jay Sparks]

I agree with tel. And I would also fit the rest in the bathroom, the same as the one above the shower, just so they all look the same.

 

[driverman]

above shower i'f fit an IPX4 or better, no matter whether it's in a zone or not.

Thanks...I'll see if the company (Silvano Click?) has IPX4 in their range

 

[driverman]

above shower i'f fit an IPX4 or better, no matter whether it's in a zone or not.

Could I tell the customer that the fittings he supplied are not suitable for purpose and do not comply with BS7671? As opposed to it would be better to go for a IPX4? Don't get me wrong, I agree with both of your recommendations. I'd rather be safe than sorry. Belts n braces with safety pin.

 

[driverman]

Any one know the make of LED light fittings that use the green click male / female type connections? I've only seen them once and all info at home. The ones that i have to install require a 65mm hole.

 

[Jay Sparks]

Could I tell the customer that the fittings he supplied are not suitable for purpose and do not comply with BS7671? As opposed to it would be better to go for a IPX4? Don't get me wrong, I agree with both of your recommendations. I'd rather be safe than sorry. Belts n braces with safety pin.

If the fittings are not fit for the environment they will be used in, then they will not meet the requirements of BS7671. It is your professional judgement that will decide whether they are fit or not.

 

[Andy78]

I fit IPX4 light fittings as standard in any area in a bathroom.

Obviously the regs call for certain IP ratings within certain zones of the special location. If the lights are outside the zones then they do not have to have any specific IP rating as far as section 701 is concerned.

However the regs also call for equipment to be appropriate for the external influences likely to be encountered in the installed situation. (132.5, 133.3, 512.2).

In a bathroom situation, all equipment will be subject to moisture from water vapour, especially the lighting. You could use the above regs to argue your case of the provided lights not being suitable. In my opinion the same argument could also be applied to the battens and pendants you usually fit too.

 

[driverman]

Any one know the make of LED light fittings that use the green click male / female type connections? I've only seen them once and all info at home. The ones that i have to install require a 65mm hole.

Found out guys. Ovia inceptor led 4300sc7c (hopefully) Any one used these? good, bad ?

 

[driverman]

I fit IPX4 light fittings as standard in any area in a bathroom.

Obviously the regs call for certain IP ratings within certain zones of the special location. If the lights are outside the zones then they do not have to have any specific IP rating as far as section 701 is concerned.

However the regs also call for equipment to be appropriate for the external influences likely to be encountered in the installed situation. (132.5, 133.3, 512.2).

In a bathroom situation, all equipment will be subject to moisture from water vapour, especially the lighting. You could use the above regs to argue your case of the provided lights not being suitable. In my opinion the same argument could also be applied to the battens and pendants you usually fit too.

Thanks...is IPX4 the same as or better than IP65?

 

[telectrix]

no. the highere the number, the better the protection. google IP ratings and print off the list.

 

[Andy78]

Thanks...is IPX4 the same as or better than IP65?

As Tel says, the higher the better. You should be fully aware of the meaning of IP ratings to be quite honest. I should have said IPX4 as a minimum.

 

[driverman]

no. the highere the number, the better the protection. google IP ratings and print off the list.

Thanks . had a read etc (whilst at work) so hopefully interrupted correctly......IP65 is better than IPX4. I see many light fittings I have looked at online refer to IP65. Can't recall any saying IPX4. 4 = for water spay.. 5 = water from nozzle.

 

[driverman]

As Tel says, the higher the better. You should be fully aware of the meaning of IP ratings to be quite honest. I should have said IPX4 as a minimum.

I've got a vague idea about IP ratings etc, but I'm not a practicing electrician as such, been out of the game many years. I knew of IP65 but not IP4X. Thanks for reply.

 

[Octopus]

IMHO mixing ip and non ip rated lights in a bathroom looks so naff

 

[driverman]

IMHO mixing ip and non ip rated lights in a bathroom looks so naff

agree, I will be fitting all the same

 

[driverman]

Looked on line what customer has brought for the whole house...turns out the fittings are IP44 rated anyhow. Therefore I was worrying about nothing really. I suppose IP65 would of been better though.

 

[sparksburnout]

Found out guys. Ovia inceptor led 4300sc7c (hopefully) Any one used these? good, bad ?

I've used them, they seemed like excellent kit to me, however they were pretty damn bright! Depends what the customer wants intensity wise.

 

[driverman]

I've used them, they seemed like excellent kit to me, however they were pretty damn bright! Depends what the customer wants intensity wise.

Well , ! sort of planned it for 3w upstairs when 1st fixing, but just left switch wire in loft ready for 2nd fixing after plastering and holes cut. I decided due to 7w each LED I would put less in. Going to be different story downstairs as I can't get to them. They look OK, neat way to connect them. I did practice fit some 15mm plaster board, found to be very tight in 65mmm hole.

 

[Octopus]

I'm a fan of JCC downlights!

 

[BES]

Same as murdoch JCC.

 

[R G]

JCC with me too , good design . the LED6 fittings can be had for just over £20 each + VAT ,

 

[Andy78]

JCC love here too.

As a slight aside, has anyone ever used KSR led downlights ? A local wholesaler is pushing them lately.... Apparently a company run by someone who was something to do with JCC. They are pushing them out extremely cheap.

 

[Dcf]

JCC love here too.

As a slight aside, has anyone ever used KSR led downlights ? A local wholesaler is pushing them lately.... Apparently a company run by someone who was something to do with JCC. They are pushing them out extremely cheap.

Fitted some ksr led downlights last week.
i think they are on par with the halers one and quite a bit cheaper.
quite a shallow heat sink at the back if space is tight.

 

[trev]

I just took a look at some 6w KSRs, £36. I think I'll stick with JCC

 

[shanky887614]

ansel so shower rated downlighters.

they have a glass in the cover (quarter turn to lock)

 

[Dcf]

I get the ksr non dimmable ones for 18 quid ex vat

 

[Andy78]

Fitted some ksr led downlights last week.
i think they are on par with the halers one and quite a bit cheaper.
quite a shallow heat sink at the back if space is tight.

Cheers, I might give them a try then..

I just took a look at some 6w KSRs, £36. I think I'll stick with JCC

I have been quoted a lot less than that.......

I get the ksr non dimmable ones for 18 quid ex vat

About this price in fact and about £22 for the dimmable I think

 

[shanky887614]

Cheers, I might give them a try then..



I have been quoted a lot less than that.......



About this price in fact and about £22 for the dimmable I think

i use ansel icage

£10 inc vat for the normal fire rated ones

and a little more for shower rated ones (no lamp though)

 

[Andy78]

i use ansel icage

£10 inc vat for the normal fire rated ones

and a little more for shower rated ones (no lamp though)

Yes, a very good fitting.... good quality build and roomy terminals. I use them sometimes but mainly use JCC as a GU10 option.

 

[driverman]

Thanks guys, JCC do seem as excellent company to deal with, but at the time I thought a tad expensive. From comments above possibly wrong.

 

[Octopus]

Thanks guys, JCC do seem as excellent company to deal with, but at the time I thought a tad expensive. From comments above possibly wrong.

A bit more expensive but a 10 year warranty!! You get what you pay for.

 

[driverman]

A bit more expensive but a 10 year warranty!! You get what you pay for.

The ones I'm fitting come with 7years warranty, which isn't too bad.

 

[driverman]

So to confirm and I've got this right. IP44 rated fittings are OK to install in a bathroom / above a shower cubical?

 

[shanky887614]

So to confirm and I've got this right. IP44 rated fittings are OK to install in a bathroom / above a shower cubical?

go for shower rated ones mate

 

[driverman]

go for shower rated ones mate

By shower rated ones, does that basically mean IP65? I believe when reading manufactures buff on line yesterday, they claimed suitable for bathrooms. Would IP44 be the absolute minimum?

 

[shanky887614]

By shower rated ones, does that basically mean IP65? I believe when reading manufactures buff on line yesterday, they claimed suitable for bathrooms. Would IP44 be the absolute minimum?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I think most electricians would fit IPx4 (or greater) rated downlights directly above a bath or shower even if it is slightly outside the zone (i.e above 2.25m), and then like Murdoch said, you may as well fit them all the same as it will look better.

Unless the ceiling above the shower or bath is going to be subjected to jets of water then IPx4 is absolutely fine.

Here is a good document on IP ratings, I'd read it all Driverman but in particular have a look at pages 8 and 12 and they will explain exactly what all the figures mean with regards IP ratings.

View attachment IPCodes-really good.pdf

 

[shanky887614]

I think most electricians would fit IPx4 (or greater) rated downlights directly above a bath or shower even if it is slightly outside the zone (i.e above 2.25m), and then like Murdoch said, you may as well fit them all the same as it will look better.

Unless the ceiling above the shower or bath is going to be subjected to jets of water then IPx4 is absolutely fine.

Here is a good document on IP ratings, I'd read it all Driverman but in particular have a look at pages 8 and 12 and they will explain exactly what all the figures mean with regards IP ratings.

View attachment 27287

thats one of the reasons we usd icage, they look the same.

the only difference is a rubber gasket and glass between lamp and twist-lock to hold the lamps in