New consumer unit install issue.

[Iona222]

I'm working with my friend a sparky. He changed the consumer unit.

Before hand I checked all circuits for continuity and done quick eicr, everything was OK.

Now with the new board on were getting a neutral fault showing on socket ring. Funny thing is the rcd manual test button isn't working. On the rcd coving the said ring. You think it could be something to do with this why showing a fault on ring. Thank you.

 

[westward10]

Disconnect the circuit completely including the cpcs and try the rcd.

 

[Iona222]

Disconnect the circuit completely including the cpcs and try the rcd.

Disconnect the circuit completely including the cpcs and try the rcd.

OK will do, its the manual test button that not working. What you thinking could be the issue?

 

[westward10]

May be no issue it could be the fault through the circuit causing the rcd not to function correctly.

 

[MJPD29]

I've had a neutral-earth fault cause an rcd test button not to work before. I have no real explanation for it but it prevented the rcd from tripping.

 

[timhoward]

Have you IR tested that circuit, either as part of checks before new board, or since the problem emerged?
Have you tried all circuits off and done an RCD test?
Is it a dual-rcd board - have you tried the circuit the other side - see if the problem moves?

 

[Iona222]

Have you IR tested that circuit, either as part of checks before new board, or since the problem emerged?
Have you tried all circuits off and done an RCD test?
Is it a dual-rcd board - have you tried the circuit the other side - see if the problem moves?

No haven't tried these, will do.

 

[Iona222]

I've had a neutral-earth fault cause an rcd test button not to work before. I have no real explanation for it but it prevented the rcd from tripping.

How did you fix the issue?

 

[Iona222]

The spark extended the cpc to reach the earth bar, he asked me what cpc I had on the van, I got him some off 10mm I had, if this wasn't the correct size would the cause more fault current to go through the the neutral, hence cause the test button not to work properl??

 

[timhoward]

The spark extended the cpc to reach the earth bar, he asked me what cpc I had on the van, I got him some off 10mm I had, if this wasn't the correct size would the cause more fault current to go through the the neutral, hence cause the test button not to work properl??

What do you think?
Don't confuse yourself pal, you have two issues here -
1 - does the RCD work or not
2 - why does one circuit cause the RCD to trip

Sort out number 1 first and get the board happy with that circuit disconnected.
Then move onto sorting out number 2. IR tests are your friend, L+N to E.

 

[Iona222]

What do you think?
Don't confuse yourself pal, you have two issues here -
1 - does the RCD work or not
2 - why does one circuit cause the RCD to trip

Sort out number 1 first and get the board happy with that circuit disconnected.
Then move onto sorting out number 2. IR tests are your friend, L+N to E.

You asked me what im thinking.

The spark has extended the cpc using the wrong size cpc causing more fault current to go through the neutral. Causing the test button not to work.
If I change the cpc to the correct size the fault current will go to earth, the neutral will be what it should be, the test button will work.
Thats what I think.

Thats what ill be doing 1st thing Tuesday

 

[suffolkspark]

If the circuit didnt have RCD protection prior to the board change I would say its likely you missed something on the EICR you said you did prior to the board change (but also mentioned you hadnt done any IR testing in post #7)
Or there's a neutral in the wrong bar

 

[westward10]

Assuming the earthing conductor should have been 16.0 replacing a short section with 10.0 will have a negligible effect. You have a neutral to earth fault on the ring final so why would a reduced earthing conductor change this.

 

[Iona222]

What do you think?
Don't confuse yourself pal, you have two issues here -
1 - does the RCD work or not
2 - why does one circuit cause the RCD to trip

Sort out number 1 first and get the board happy with that circuit disconnected.
Then move onto sorting out number 2. IR tests are your friend, L+N to E.

What do you think?
Don't confuse yourself pal, you have two issues here -
1 - does the RCD work or not
2 - why does one circuit cause the RCD to trip

Sort out number 1 first and get the board happy with that circuit disconnected.
Then move onto sorting out number 2. IR tests are your friend, L+N to E.

Assuming the earthing conductor should have been 16.0 replacing a short section with 10.0 will have a negligible effect. You have a neutral to earth fault on the ring final so why would a reduced earthing conductor change this.

No larger cpc that is required, if you read what I put he's put 4mm cpc on a circuit that should be 1.5mm. Does the cpc not need to be the correct size.

 

[telectrix]

the extended cpc has nothing to do with it. you have a N-E fault on the ring circuit which is inhibiting thr RCD. i don't know the theory behind this but i've had it a couple of times.

 

[DPG]

What IR results did you get for each circuit?

 

[MJPD29]

How did you fix the issue?

Once we found and removed/ rectified the fault the RCD started functioning normally again

 

[Iona222]

Once we found and removed/ rectified the fault the RCD started functioning normally again

I agree, I just spoke to the spark he said he did a I.r. test and its fine.

 

[Iona222]

What IR results did you get for each circuit?

Was over the required 38M it was. Ill go back change all cpc to the correct size. I read this could be the issue.

 

[Iona222]

the extended cpc has nothing to do with it. you have a N-E fault on the ring circuit which is inhibiting thr RCD. i don't know the theory behind this but i've had it a couple of times.

I read that you can get a error from neutral to protective earth if the cpc is oversized.

 

[westward10]

If you believe this then what is the reason if the cpc is oversized, why would it cause an error.

 

[Iona222]

I read that you can get a error from neutral to protective earth if the cpc is oversized.

the extended cpc has nothing to do with it. you have a N-E fault on the ring circuit which is inhibiting thr RCD. i don't know the theory behind this but i've had it a couple of times.

OK what do I do then, I had all the sockets off, Its passing I.r. what you suggest?

 

[suffolkspark]

OK what do I do then, I had all the sockets off, Its passing I.r. what you suggest?

Its not the "oversized" cpc. You've been told that. Have you measured earth leakage from the circuit whilst energised? Have you done an IR test of the circuit to the MET, have you ensured the neutrals are in the correct bar. Have you split the circuit in half and tried energising 1 leg?

 

[DPG]

The spark you are working with should know what tests to do.

What's his opinion on you wanting to change the size of the CPC? Does he agree?

 

[Iona222]

OK what do I do then, I had all the sockets off, Its passing I.r. what you

The spark you are working with should know what tests to do.

What's his opinion on you wanting to change the size of the CPC? Does he agree?

No he's grabbed the money, ----ed off, saying he's busy.

 

[DPG]

No he's grabbed the money, ----ed off, saying he's busy.

He's been paid for the job despite it not being complete? And left his trainee to fix it? Why did the customer pay him before the job was finished?

Are we getting the full story here?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Now with the new board on were getting a neutral fault showing on socket ring.

OK what do I do then, I had all the sockets off, Its passing I.r. what you suggest?

In your OP, you say there is a neutral fault. Later you say the circuit has passed IR. Please can you explain this, so we are better placed to advise?

 

[Iona222]

He's been paid for the job despite it not being complete? And left his trainee to fix it? Why did the customer pay him before the job was finished?

Are we getting the full story here?

No I paid him. From my own pocket, the customer is going to pay me.

 

[DPG]

No I paid him.

I think your customer is going to have to get a qualified spark in to sort this out.

In your first post you said it was a friend of yours you were working with.

 

[Iona222]

I think your customer is going to have to get a qualified spark in to sort this out.

Ye, I think so.

 

[suffolkspark]

Ye, I think so.

Which one of you has registered the ccu change with labc via a cps?

 

[Iona222]

Which one of you has registered the ccu change with labc via a cps?

Its in Scotland not a requirement,

 

[suffolkspark]

Its in Scotland not a requirement,

Ok, perhaps a photo of the internals of the board could help us spot something.

 

[Iona222]

I think your customer is going to have to get a qualified spark in to sort this out.

In your first post you said it was a friend of yours you were working with.

Ok, perhaps a photo of the internals of the board could help us spot something.

OK,im trying to arrange access with the client.

 

[suffolkspark]

Ive re read your first post... so the rcd holds in, just doesnt trip via the button?

Does it trip via the button with the circuit disconnected?

Does it trip with a tester?

Have you got all equipment disconnected from sockets?

Is it a type A rcd?

 

[Iona222]

Ive re read your first post... so the rcd holds in, just doesnt trip via the button?

Does it trip via the button with the circuit disconnected?

Does it trip with a tester?

Have you got all equipment disconnected from sockets?

Is it a type A rcd?

Yip trip with the rcd tester plugged in.

 

[Iona222]

Ive re read your first post... so the rcd holds in, just doesnt trip via the button?

Does it trip via the button with the circuit disconnected?

Does it trip with a tester?

Have you got all equipment disconnected from sockets?

Is it a type A rcd?

I appreciate the help mate, wait till I'm in front of the board, im waiting on the client calling.

 

[suffolkspark]

I appreciate the help mate, wait till I'm in front of the board, im waiting on the client calling.

Ok, just checking you tried that test button with absolutely everything unplugged. I have had that before on an old MK board.

 

[telectrix]

could even be a faulty RCD if it trips when tested.what were the trip times?. might be cost effective to try another RCD.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I promised myself I would not become bitter like poor old Murdoch or grumpy and mean like long forgotten Tony, so.... I will stop myself from saying anything else on this thread unless it is productive and friendly ??

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The OP appears to have offered electrical services to a client, and got a friend electrician to do the work with him. The 'friend' has left faults on the installation, taken the money and run. The OP (a trainee) is now trying to fix the faults himself, a task which is clearly beyond his skill level.

Whilst unfortunate for the OP, he should be getting someone competent to complete the work, paid for out of his own pocket, and shouldn't be attempting it himself.

I do not believe we can offer any better advise than this.

 

[suffolkspark]

If the qualified spark has supplied the EIC then i guess the liability is on him though should anything go wrong?

 

[timhoward]

If the qualified spark has supplied the EIC then i guess the liability is on him though should anything go wrong?

If there is an EIC at all....

 

[DPG]

I'm glad I'm not the customer.

 

[Iona222]

Ok, just checking you tried that test button with absolutely everything unplugged. I have had that before on an old MK board.

Just done i.r. test on circuit. Over 200M disconnected the circuit, the rcd test button isn't working.

 

[westward10]

I assume this is not an rcbo but an rcd protecting several circuits.

 

[UNG]

I'm working with my friend a sparky. He changed the consumer unit.

No he's grabbed the money, ----ed off, saying he's busy.

Some friend and beginning to doubt he is a spark
Did he leave the EIC before he did one or is that something else that he is too busy for

Before hand I checked all circuits for continuity and done quick eicr, everything was OK.

Now with the new board on were getting a neutral fault showing on socket ring. Funny thing is the rcd manual test button isn't working. On the rcd coving the said ring. You think it could be something to do with this why showing a fault on ring. Thank you.

So did you do an EICR and all the tests and document them or was it just check for continuity

No I paid him. From my own pocket, the customer is going to pay me.

Looks like a lesson learned there as he has been paid and you are hoping the customer will pay you


My first thought is to thoroughly check the RCD including a ramp test, had quite a few over the last few years that have failed brand new out of the box with a 1x tripping current in excess of the 30ma

After that I wonder if you have trapped or damaged a cable while fitting the new CU

 

[telectrix]

if OP was close to me, I'd go over and help him sort it all out. looks like he's bin dropped in the deep end without a life jacket. surely a member is in Jockland can give him some assistance. (he's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy).

 

[timhoward]

if OP was close to me, I'd go over and help him sort it all out. looks like he's bin dropped in the deep end without a life jacket. surely a member is in Jockland can give him some assistance. (he's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy).

Scotland is a big place. A little more info from OP about roughly where he is could help. Of course he might be on the island that he's named after....

 

[UNG]

if OP was close to me, I'd go over and help him sort it all out. looks like he's bin dropped in the deep end without a life jacket. surely a member is in Jockland can give him some assistance. (he's not the Messiah, he's a naughty boy).

Was thinking the same myself