New rewire and fuse board - views on work.

[Debrahim]

No issue with this approach

Although I would have tried my best to persuade you to go for a full Rcbo board , for the extra 90-100 quid on materials it is a far superior set up

Hi Dusty, If I had known that they are superior and advised I'd have gone for it. The board discussion was only after the

The above is one of many reasons why a lot of electricians insist upon supplying materials - or at the very least writing a comprehensive list.

Your new board is not what many would recommend, for reasons previously outlined, but having a dual RCD board doens't present any inherent danger. It can be argued that such boards should no longer be fitted, and I'd be the first to argue that very point, but changing it again will present significant cost and this would be borne by you as the board was your choice.

Provided the wiring in your home is good, and connections sound, the risk of problems should be exceptionally low and it might be best to get any real issues resolved and chalk the rest up to experience. I doubt you'll be using this electrician again, but in future would look for word of mouth recommendations or ask for someone local on a specialist forum like this one.

Again someone not reading - he was going to supply and fit a dual RCD board. All I did was change brand.

 

[nicebutdim]

Again someone not reading - he was going to supply and fit a dual RCD board. All I did was change brand.

I understand that and have already addressed the point - what I went on to point out is why many electricians insist upon supplying materials. That also benefits the customer as their electrician is responsible if any components are subsequently found to be unsuitable or should they fail while under warranty.

If your electrician had supplied the board, there might have been an argument that it doesn't meet current requirements, with you only having to bear any difference in cost. As things stand, while you still have a valid argument against this dual RCD set up, the cost of new materials would be down to you. As such, my advice was to get the small issues sorted and not worry about RCBOs.

 

[Dave OCD]

Here's a picture of a Fusebox CU with compact RCBOs recently installed by me , this wouldn't cost an awful lot more than the dual RCD Hager board you specified and is good quality. I think how a CU is fitted/connected up gives a fair idea of an electricians attitude to their work and any decent Electrical Tradesperson would produce something like this.

 

[Debrahim]

It's a slightly subjective one. "RCDs shall be selected and the circuits subdivided in such a way that any earth leakage current likely to occur during normal operation of the connected load will not cause unwanted tripping of the device"
One might argue that stacking 8 (or 7 and a spare?) circuits on a single RCD is pushing it a bit.
On the other hand if he measured the normal leakage current as <=9ma then he's complied with a further ident of the same reg.

I think you've had good advice already. It's not neat and tidy, it could use some cable restraint, and wiser decisions could have been made laying out the board. They look like Type A RCD's, it has SPD protection and it's a decent brand.

It sounds as though you have had an almost complete rewire for a pretty decent price for London.
The smoke alarm setup is probably in fact a good idea as if that circuit trips you will know about it as it is also feeding lighting.

I actually can't see an NICEIC complaint getting far with this one, we've seen much worse on here and their first response will be to ask you to put your complaints in writing to the sparks anyway. They will only get involved (and reluctantly) if relationships completely break down or he refuses to address your complaint.
I'd suggest a civil conversation with him to request he tidies up a bit, and double check there's a CPC wire in the SPD.

Thank you,
I'm afraid what the NICEIC say, and what the law is, may well be completely different. The latter, however I am fully aware of. Why would I complain to a body that he pays hundreds of pounds to a year?

I am happy with it being tidied up, etc - but the lie for it being such a mess is laughable. He must think I am an idiot.

Prompted by the questions regarding the red and black wires, - there was a specific charge to run a new feed to the light on the second floor, likewise with the sockets. However they are red and black and it is clear therefore it has not been completed.

I am just grateful that I have the other fuse board providing for my kitchen. It is clear just looking at it, the labels, the fact the wires are put together before it comes into the fuse board that it was done by someone who cares. The builders subcontracted them in, perhaps I should have looked for the cert and their details, but instead relied on one of the many review websites.

I've never been in such a position before and have paid all the other trades as agreed and on time. The fact now he hasn't done work as part on the contract puts me in a very difficult place.

 

[Debrahim]

Here's a picture of a Fusebox CU with compact RCBOs recently installed by me , this wouldn't cost an awful lot more than the dual RCD Hager board you specified and is good quality. I think how a CU is fitted/connected up gives a fair idea of an electricians attitude to their work and any decent Electrical Tradesperson would produce something like this.

I think you are defo right. Part of me thinks whether I should leave it be, or whether I should get a competent spark to rip it out, and fit a new one with RCBO's.

Funny enough the picture of the fuseboard he installed on his my builder account is pretty much faultless.

 

[westward10]

When it comes to judging someone #53 says it all and the picture he shows on My Builder probably wasn't something he had done.

 

[Welchyboy1]

I understand that, and the reasons why, but if a customer specifically requested fitment of a quality dual RCD board, I can't see any reason not to.

I'd certainly put forth a persuasive argument in favour of an alternative set up, but can't think of any reason why one shouldn't be fitted at a customer's request.

I supply two quotes when quoting a board, one for dual rcd, one for full rcbo, with a strong recommendation to fit the rcbo board and with the continuing drop in rcbo costs this is getting an easier argument to win in most cases

I would say I get about 60% go with the rcbo board( when it’s their own property mostly)

for rentals they always seem to go with the cheapest option, even though I explain it’s potentially a false economy

I earn the same profit to fit either, I would not like to risk losing potentially 40% of the work by refusing to fit a dual rcd board, that’s their choice

 

[cliffed]

Here's a picture of a Fusebox CU with compact RCBOs recently installed by me , this wouldn't cost an awful lot more than the dual RCD Hager board you specified and is good quality. I think how a CU is fitted/connected up gives a fair idea of an electricians attitude to their work and any decent Electrical Tradesperson would produce something like this.

Great install

 

[cliffed]

Agree with all comments, usually the client will have no idea what’s happening inside the DB..& yes it’s very untidy..the cables entering the DB will need trunking.
Also like others have said if a Certificate been issued then the responsibility lies with that person, not an ideal situation, it’s really your Call.. obviously the relationship between you & the Sparks are a bit “tainted“ & who can blame you, a meeting with him maybe the option & a tidy up of items you are concerned of… good luck..

 

[buzzlightyear]

I’m refusing to pay him the final payment - he is going to come around and sort it.

It should have been done in the begging
What was his company called heniz electrical, I would not pay him.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I’ve checked on the website, he’s part P. I found him on my builder with over 100 reviews and 100% positive rating.

You are only has good what you do regarding skill and judgement.
Buzz book of proverbs.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I can honestly say that I haven't fitted a dual RCD board since around 2019 , they were a crap design when they came out in the 17th Ed and are still a crap design now

 

[Mobisystems]

Hi,

I’d appreciate views on the fuse board.

B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted at ImgBB

Image B15507-C3-D860-4-B7-C-B670-7-C9332043-AB4 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

It’s been completely rewired and I’m unhappy with the quality.

I’ve messaged him about it and described the board as a complete mess, and poor workmanship ship. For entry for the 25mm cables and 16mm tails he used the knock out but didn’t bother using the plastic cable holder - which is a couple of quid.

Also with the cables coming in through the back, there is no plastic or anything so the metal of the board could rub against the metal of the board.

his reply is below

a. - there is a reason why cables shouldn't be perfectly arrange in the fuse box because it could create electromagnetic field resulting in humming sound in the fuse box- you would probably think that's ridiculous ! But it's a fact!


Quite frankly I’m shocked, would you be happy with the work, paying over 4k? And supplying the board all second fix items etc? So basically 5k?

He has also created 5 additional lighting circuits downstairs, I live in a three bed terraced house.

1) for 6 down lights in a 2.5m x 2m room.
2) just the ground hallway light.
3) the lounge dinner, two lights and two wall lights.
4) a porch light and floodlight.
5) under stairs light simply 2 lights.

His reply is that it is is better… but then it’s all on a dual rcd so it doesn’t really help in my opinion.

We agreed the whole of downstairs on a circuit except the hallway on a separate one. (He said that was best practice.

I’ve attached photos and the pieces that I believe should go there. One is too big.

What I noticed on the DB, if you look at the SPD on the right of the main Isolator, at the bottom side the N busbar link is bare, like the plastic cover was cut. I know that it doesn't come like that from the manufacturer.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

@westward10 my understanding is that they look like this - and I'd expect to see some glimpse of the CPC .

I fitted a hager SPD board 2 or 3 months back. I recall it being configured strangely, it came with the link across the top, but IIRC it didn't have a CPC connecting it to earth, I think it made the connection via the DIN rail. Basically as in the picture in the OP.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Here's a photo, there was no CPC. I feel like I should go back to the job now to confirm that it is connected to earth via the din rail.

I actually thought it was defective at first, because of the vaguely red window (I'm sure older hager SPDs had a green window when ok), so contacted Mastertrade, who helpfully forwarded info from hager explaining that it will go solid red when expired.

 

[LukeD]

8 circuits on one RCD - that's not good.

Decent quality board though. And an SPD fitted.

Cracking excuse for untidy wiring - it avoids electromagnetic interference making the fuseboard hum!!

You should read some post on hifi forums !!!

 

[Mobisystems]

The above is one of many reasons why a lot of electricians insist upon supplying materials - or at the very least writing a comprehensive list.

Your new board is not what many would recommend, for reasons previously outlined, but having a dual RCD board doens't present any inherent danger. It can be argued that such boards should no longer be fitted, and I'd be the first to argue that very point, but changing it again will present significant cost and this would be borne by you as the board was your choice.

Provided the wiring in your home is good, and connections sound, the risk of problems should be exceptionally low and it might be best to get any real issues resolved and chalk the rest up to experience. I doubt you'll be using this electrician again, but in future would look for word of mouth recommendations or ask for someone local on a specialist forum like this one.

I also agree with the opinion , that there is nothing wrong with fitting Dual RCD DB. It's mainly matter of convenience for me, when using RCBO's instead of dual RCD, in case of a fault. At the moment we are finishing residential apartments complex, using exactly the same Hagger DB's. I must have tested 300 of them so far. Regarding the mentioned above DB job, it's cheaply done, but this very common, when a client choses the cheapest offers. Normally, I would use gland for the meter tails and supporting clips. Cables contained in 50x50mm trunking(or bigger) , and using metal bushes/lockrings instead of the knockouts. All gaps/cable entry sealed with fire mastic. And at the end - all connections within DB tightened with torque screwdriver by manufacturer's specifications(nearly nobody is doing that, but yesterday was called out to sort a problem because of loose busbar connection in DB). Also I would leave a spare MCB before the 1st RCD(for security alarm/fire alarm/ disability / garrage DB circuits).

 

[LukeD]

I’ve noticed this and have pointed this out.

He is a niceic registered electrician which I’ve verified with them.

I’ve also noted that if the fuse on the right goes I will loose both power and lights to the upstairs and third floor (loft).

As an electrician would you be satisfied with the standard of work ? He deems it good quality and states he’s been registered for 15 years.

I’ve checked on the website, he’s part P. I found him on my builder with over 100 reviews and 100% positive rating.

You say dual rcd is not recommended. If im honest I didn’t want to spend the money on a rcbo- there are 14 circuits.

If I wanted to change this to a rcbo, could I simply buy the rcbo’ or would I need to install a whole new board ?

Is it possible in this fuse board to add a third rcd, to split some of the stuff, in case one trips etc ?

Or even is it possible to put an rcbo in there? Obviously I know it would need to come before the RCD.


Perhaps just for upstairs sockets so we have some power in an emergency.

no this is after the rewire.

What rewire ??? one or two circuits maybe but as mentioned there is old coded cables showing

 

[timhoward]

Here's a photo, there was no CPC. I feel like I should go back to the job now to confirm that it is connected to earth via the din rail.

It's taken some concerted searching, as the numbers on the front are the cartridge numbers SPB015 and SPB105N.
I believe the whole assembly is knows as VME02SPD, and the instructions (which also mention those cartridges) show a CPC connected. But it wasn't easy to find this.

https://www.electrical4less.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/ZD0906_VME02SPD_SURGE_KIT_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

https://hager.com/uk/products/download/product/asset/file/ZD0906_VME02SPD_SURGE_KIT_INSTRUCTIONS.PDF/

 

[Mobisystems]

Yes the Regulations do not advise them for residential properties.

Here's a picture of a Fusebox CU with compact RCBOs recently installed by me , this wouldn't cost an awful lot more than the dual RCD Hager board you specified and is good quality. I think how a CU is fitted/connected up gives a fair idea of an electricians attitude to their work and any decent Electrical Tradesperson would produce something like this.

Hi, just curious, are your Meter tails burried in the wall?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

My take on dual RCD boards:

The regulations don't require us to fit RCBO boards in residential, they don't even recommend them (as they do for AFDDs, and how many of us are fitting those as standard?). It just asks us to consider using them as a means of avoiding unwanted tripping.

I don't see much evidence that accumulated normal earth leakage reaches levels where it would cause nuisance tripping in normal sized homes, even when one 30mA RCD protects the entire installation. That, along with the OSG still offering dual RCD boards as a solution, makes me think that they are still acceptable.

I prefer RCBO boards, but I still think the choice is up to my customers. I explain the benefits and then it's up to them to decide.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

It's taken some concerted searching, as the numbers on the front are the cartridge numbers SPB015 and SPB105N.
I believe the whole assembly is knows as VME02SPD, and the instructions (which also mention those cartridges) show a CPC connected. But it wasn't easy to find this.

https://www.electrical4less.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/ZD0906_VME02SPD_SURGE_KIT_INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

https://hager.com/uk/products/download/product/asset/file/ZD0906_VME02SPD_SURGE_KIT_INSTRUCTIONS.PDF/

View attachment 105147
View attachment 105148

The board I fitted came with the SPD already installed, with the solid link across the top. I wish I'd taken a closer look at it now, but it was a difficult board change that ran on into the evening (you know those ones where every single thing about it is difficult), so I didn't pay it a great deal of attention .

I might check this with Hager

 

[timhoward]

I might check this with Hager

I'd certainly be interested to know the outcome. I've only ever fitted one of those and had to add the module myself, and it came with a bit of 6mm CPC that obviously I went looking for a home for.
But I've seen a couple on EICRs and may have messed up myself as my photo of one of them doesn't have a CPC connection.
I'm wondering if some sheds are assembling the populated boards themselves and getting it wrong....

 

[Debrahim]

The board I fitted came with the SPD already installed, with the solid link across the top. I wish I'd taken a closer look at it now, but it was a difficult board change that ran on into the evening (you know those ones where every single thing about it is difficult), so I didn't pay it a great deal of attention .

I might check this with Hager

Indeed, if a professional, namely an electrician just quotes for a dual RCD board, then when I'm looking at Hager, why would I think hey, i'll buy these too- additional expense. If the quote was for RCBO's i'd ask what they are, the benefits and clearly a lot of the members on here suggest they should be fitted then I would have gone with one.

A bit like surge protection, he specified that on the quote and before I bought the board I sent him the link etc.

On a dual RCD board, is it not good practice to put some lights on one. side, and some sockets on the other? From memory if the RCD on the right trips, then I loose power and lights to the 1st floor, and 2nd floor.

I bought the board as unpopulated, is it possible that I could keep the board, and exchange for RCBO's.

I have space on the Hager board below, are Wiska the only supplier that allow m e to take a circuit or two from the new board and fit to the old board,

I deliberately bought an oversized board, for the reason that I am getting a car charger, and solar and batteries making the board full.

I'm clearly going to employ a different electrician and go for RCBO's - but is having three fuse boards OTT. Perhaps a 6 way board, OR would you upgrade the plastic one, to RCBO's and instead of 6, have 10 circuits.

Thanks for the help. So in short I'm going to ask he tidies the board up, (he refused before, but as i'm not paying the balance it appears he has agreed,) fits protection on the back, (both i've bought), last thing is I want a metal board to become

When it comes to judging someone #53 says it all and the picture he shows on My Builder probably wasn't something he had done.

I'm hesitant with this stuff - he gave me the phone number of a job who he had finished, and she said it is all working, she is happy but admitted she doesn't know the ins and outs of electrics. She just said he was a hard worker and that she was happy.

I was also invited on to a job to watch. I regret this now.

I thought having done all this I’d done my due diligence.

What rewire ??? one or two circuits maybe but as mentioned there is old coded cables showing

I’ve found out by looking at the other end that a new cable for power and lighting hasn’t been run to the loft.

I don’t really know what to do, I think someone above is suggesting the SPD isn’t fitted properly, - I thought let’s tidy the board up, (you can see his excuse above) and then pay the guy, learn a lesson and move on.

I’m thinking whether I should get an electrical expert to write a report, on the quality of work. Correct me if I’m wrong but if I get an EICR the electrician doing it won’t want to get involved.

Are there any electrical experts that can provide a written report? I.e if it goes to court. I know the board is a mess and that there are old cables where there should specifically be new ones I.e colours but the judge won’t.

I’ve reviewed the quotes, and, I’d like to clarify that this wasn’t the cheapest quote.

Looking at them, none have RCBO’s rather all dual RCD.

Now with those circuits still on old wiring I don’t know what to do. Do i tell him to forget it, do I deduct the price of that from the quote?

I’ve never refused to pay a tradesman and have paid everyone else as arranged or as per the contract and we left on good terms..

I was thinking last night, rather than binning the board, perhaps I could get an electrician to connect the 6 circuits on the plastic board (three either side) and then get a new board with RCBO’s as the main one.

Someone above mentioned fusedbox - would people use this or pay more for a different brand?

Alternatively if an electrician takes my Hager board can they remove the RCD’s and MCB’s and replace with RCBO’s - looking at the board it mentions ‘high integrity’.

 

[westward10]

Where are you in London.

 

[Debrahim]

Where are you in London.

South west London.

I’m not a cheap skate or whatever, so if someone is prepared to have a look over things even to say, it all appears fine - it’s just a mess then that would be fine.

It’s worrying me about the earth cable to SPD, has it been fitted incorrectly? If I’m honest I can’t recall seeing that yellow wire in the box at all ?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I'd certainly be interested to know the outcome. I've only ever fitted one of those and had to add the module myself, and it came with a bit of 6mm CPC that obviously I went looking for a home for.
But I've seen a couple on EICRs and may have messed up myself as my photo of one of them doesn't have a CPC connection.
I'm wondering if some sheds are assembling the populated boards themselves and getting it wrong....

I've emailed hager, I'll update when I have news

 

[nicebutdim]

I supply two quotes when quoting a board, one for dual rcd, one for full rcbo, with a strong recommendation to fit the rcbo board and with the continuing drop in rcbo costs this is getting an easier argument to win in most cases

I would say I get about 60% go with the rcbo board( when it’s their own property mostly)

for rentals they always seem to go with the cheapest option, even though I explain it’s potentially a false economy

I earn the same profit to fit either, I would not like to risk losing potentially 40% of the work by refusing to fit a dual rcd board, that’s their choice

I understand your reasoning, but wouldn't be inclined to do the same.

A few years back I'd have considered this a fair approach, but believe the cost of technology is now sufficiently low to dispense with dual RCD options (not to mention regulatory advice). With homes continually being filled with more and more gadgets, along with appliances intended to leak current to earth, I don't consider a dual RCD set up as providing sufficient capacity for the near future. Most homes are unlikely to experience nuisance tripping because of RCDs protecting multiple circuits, but I'd rather not make that assumption on behalf of homeowners. Providing an explanation of benefits is all well and good, but a significant number of homeowners won't grasp the principles behind your recommendation of a slightly more expensive option.

 

[mainline]

Here's a picture of a Fusebox CU with compact RCBOs recently installed by me , this wouldn't cost an awful lot more than the dual RCD Hager board you specified and is good quality. I think how a CU is fitted/connected up gives a fair idea of an electricians attitude to their work and any decent Electrical Tradesperson would produce something like this.

This maybe me being a bit picky but

How long are those tails ? the ones going through those big holes near the twisted rcbos

 

[Debrahim]

Hi guys I’ve included more pics including that of the SPD. (In my non electrical brain it shows an earth coming out from the top of the SPD but there there are the two bit coming out. As I said when we opened the box I never saw an earth wire in the box nor connected to the SPD.

 

[nicebutdim]

I also agree with the opinion , that there is nothing wrong with fitting Dual RCD DB. It's mainly matter of convenience for me, when using RCBO's instead of dual RCD, in case of a fault. At the moment we are finishing residential apartments complex, using exactly the same Hagger DB's. I must have tested 300 of them so far. Regarding the mentioned above DB job, it's cheaply done, but this very common, when a client choses the cheapest offers. Normally, I would use gland for the meter tails and supporting clips. Cables contained in 50x50mm trunking(or bigger) , and using metal bushes/lockrings instead of the knockouts. All gaps/cable entry sealed with fire mastic. And at the end - all connections within DB tightened with torque screwdriver by manufacturer's specifications(nearly nobody is doing that, but yesterday was called out to sort a problem because of loose busbar connection in DB). Also I would leave a spare MCB before the 1st RCD(for security alarm/fire alarm/ disability / garrage DB circuits).

There are many things in the OP's board that a lot of electricians would do differently, but I tried to limit criticism to issues that breached actual regulations and avoid stating what might be considered best practice.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Hi guys I’ve included more pics including that of the SPD. (In my non electrical brain it shows an earth coming out from the top of the SPD but there there are the two bit coming out. As I said when we opened the box I never saw an earth wire in the box nor connected to the SPD.

This is the same as the one I fitted. I think it connects to earth via the steel enclosure and din rail, but I have emailed hager for clarification and will update when I have news

 

[mainline]

The general consensus will be that dual RCD boards should be avoided and I'd fully agree with that.

Not if you only have 2 circuits

 

[Debrahim]

This is the same as the one I fitted. I think it connects to earth via the steel enclosure and din rail, but I have emailed hager for clarification and will update when I have news

Hi well like you I had no cpc cable in the box or coming out of it, and from your pic mine looks the same if that is of any help.

Looking into RCBO’s now - is there any reason why the Hager enclosure couldn’t be used ?
This is the exact one Design 10 - 14 Way 100A Dual Split Consumer Unit c/w 2 RCDs (Type A) + SPD | Hager (VML914CUSPD) - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HGVML914CUSPD.html

 

[Debrahim]

There are many things in the OP's board that a lot of electricians would do differently, but I tried to limit criticism to issues that breached actual regulations and avoid stating what might be considered best practice.

Hi, could you please tell me best practice ?

I’ve seen that people install a 100 amp isolator before the board.

Forgive me I don’t want to be rude to anyone, but is it possible he passed after doing one of these short courses, like the 3 week ones, rather than an apprenticeship / or the normal way of college/ training etc.

 

[nicebutdim]

Hi, could you please tell me best practice ?

The post I was responding to mentioned several ways in which they'd have approached this board differently and I'd have taken a similar approach, but not doing so isn't a breach of any regulation.

Containment of cables would give a more aesthetically pleasing look to the installation, but sheathed cables such as the twin and earth used in domestic installations does not need to be contained.

The issues to which you can legitimately raise objections have already been covered: Power and lighting should be split across both RCDs, so loosing one bank of circuits will ensure either power or light remains in any given area of the home. Cables (including incoming tails) should be suitably supported and restrained - there are many ways in which this can be done, including the simple cable clip. If there is sufficient space for finger access where tails come in the bottom, then this should be filled. Cables should be protected from metal edges as they come into the board, which can be remedied through the use of grommet strip.

I know not all issues will be covered in the above paragraph, as I'm working from memory of what I read last night, but am trying to draw a clear distinction between how electricians might approach this job and what is actually required from a regulatory perspective.


Edit: An isolator after the meter is very helpful for future work or maintenance, but no regulation mandates this additional means of isolation.

As for training? I couldn't comment - many time served electricians turn out shoddy work and there are also electricians who came to the industry through a short course and go on to turn out exemplary work. Knowledge is very useful, but can be renered pointless if not accompanied by a good work ethic.

 

[Debrahim]

So my research seems to indicate that RCBO's can fit within the board. They are listed as an accessory by TLC.

The board code brings up that is High Intensity - how many RCBO's I can fit, I don't know. A single RCBO from TLC is nearly £30 on its own.
Should I get an electrician to change everything to RCBO (if possible). If not should I get sockets and lights on their own RCBO, (the kitchen is on its own board, so if the new board trips I still have light and power downstairs).

I'm also getting a car charger, and solar, I assume these are both high risk items. So I should spend the extra and also put them on a RCBO on the main Hager Board ?

Or should I spend even more, and get the car charger, and solar, on its own RCBO board, with surge ?

 

[mainline]

So my research seems to indicate that RCBO's can fit within the board. They are listed as an accessory by TLC.

The board code brings up that is High Intensity - how many RCBO's I can fit, I don't know. A single RCBO from TLC is nearly £30 on its own.
Should I get an electrician to change everything to RCBO (if possible). If not should I get sockets and lights on their own RCBO, (the kitchen is on its own board, so if the new board trips I still have light and power downstairs).

I'm also getting a car charger, and solar, I assume these are both high risk items. So I should spend the extra and also put them on a RCBO on the main Hager Board ?

Or should I spend even more, and get the car charger, and solar, on its own RCBO board, with surge ?

The best thing to do is get another sparky in (A decent one) and let them plan it for you.

You certainly don't need all those circuits on separate rcbos.

 

[nicebutdim]

The best thing to do is get another sparky in (A decent one) and let them plan it for you.

You certainly don't need all those circuits on separate rcbos.

Also unlikely to gain any benefit from the additional expense of changing to RCBOs and sourcing new busbar. I'd be inclined to leave the current set up in place, unless cumulative earth leakage happens to cause nuisance tripping (of which there have been no reports so far).

 

[nicebutdim]

So my research seems to indicate that RCBO's can fit within the board. They are listed as an accessory by TLC.

The board code brings up that is High Intensity - how many RCBO's I can fit, I don't know. A single RCBO from TLC is nearly £30 on its own.
Should I get an electrician to change everything to RCBO (if possible). If not should I get sockets and lights on their own RCBO, (the kitchen is on its own board, so if the new board trips I still have light and power downstairs).

I'm also getting a car charger, and solar, I assume these are both high risk items. So I should spend the extra and also put them on a RCBO on the main Hager Board ?

Or should I spend even more, and get the car charger, and solar, on its own RCBO board, with surge ?

Even pairing down the number of circuits, you're looking at £300+ additional expenditure and for what gain?

EV charge point may present an issue with current installation, but there are a number of ways in which that issue could be overcome.

I'm not telling you not to make this change, but asking you to consider whether or not it's worth spending money on. One benefit would be that any fault to earth causes tripping of a single circuit, but is that really essential to you?

 

[Diddy]

The issues to which you can legitimately raise objections have already been covered: Power and lighting should be split across both RCDs, so loosing one bank of circuits will ensure either power or light remains in any given area of the home. Cables (including incoming tails) should be suitably supported and restrained - there are many ways in which this can be done, including the simple cable clip. If there is sufficient space for finger access where tails come in the bottom, then this should be filled. Cables should be protected from metal edges as they come into the board, which can be remedied through the use of grommet strip.

The above are the ONLY issues that you could pull the original electrician on. As well as the bit of the circuit that has not been rewired. Be advised that you must give the original electrician the opportunity to fix those issues before going down the withholding payment or part payment route.
These are also the only things that you need rectified to make the installation totally compliant and safe for continued use. So as far as safety is concerned get the above fixed and you are fine to leave everything as it is.

You do not need a new board - It would just have been "better" if you had at least been given the option of an RCBO setup, But that ship has sailed as it were. There is zero recourse on the people who quoted for you when you simply asked for a fuse board upgrade or indeed if it was part of other works for not offering the RCBO option....It's just that most of us on here find it strange due to the fact that the cost difference these days is minimal and it is "best practice" but not really laid out in black and white in the regulations.

I

 

[Dave OCD]

Hi, just curious, are your Meter tails burried in the wall?

They go straight through into the external meter box.

 

[Dave OCD]

This maybe me being a bit picky but

How long are those tails ? the ones going through those big holes near the twisted rcbos

Less than a metre, they go straight through to DP isolator in the external meter box. Considering the testing was completed at 3pm and the board install was complete including the labelling by 4.45pm I'd say it's not bad at all. Let's see a pic of one of your boards now ?

 

[mainline]

Less than a metre, they go straight through to DP isolator in the external meter box. Considering the testing was completed at 3pm and the board install was complete including the labelling by 4.45pm I'd say it's not bad at all. Let's see a pic of one of your boards now ?

I did mean to go back and finish this one, but the fella wouldn't let me back in.

 

[Debrahim]

Also unlikely to gain any benefit from the additional expense of changing to RCBOs and sourcing new busbar. I'd be inclined to leave the current set up in place, unless cumulative earth leakage happens to cause nuisance tripping (of which there have been no reports so far).

I have been advised that a dual RCD board is bad, and that I should have RCBO's - you guys are the experts, if its a matter of safety, i'm happy to swap.

There has been no tripping. I allowed extra space for the solar/car charger, but thought,

The above are the ONLY issues that you could pull the original electrician on. As well as the bit of the circuit that has not been rewired. Be advised that you must give the original electrician the opportunity to fix those issues before going down the withholding payment or part payment route.
These are also the only things that you need rectified to make the installation totally compliant and safe for continued use. So as far as safety is concerned get the above fixed and you are fine to leave everything as it is.

You do not need a new board - It would just have been "better" if you had at least been given the option of an RCBO setup, But that ship has sailed as it were. There is zero recourse on the people who quoted for you when you simply asked for a fuse board upgrade or indeed if it was part of other works for not offering the RCBO option....It's just that most of us on here find it strange due to the fact that the cost difference these days is minimal and it is "best practice" but not really laid out in black and white in the regulations.

I

Thank you, however the law says that the work must be carried out with skill and care. The test is whether a ‘reasonably competent member of the profession’ would leave it like that.

Everyone here said it’s sloppy and poor. If you boards look like this then I’d be interested to see ?

He didn’t use a torc screwdriver nor did he do any testing. I know as I was there.

The tails inside are just free floating and hanging - no clip to hold them in place, is that legal?

The cables come through the back via the metal, there is no grommet or plastic to protect the cables against the sharp metal edge again is that legal ?

The socket has a massive hole there, my finger could easily fit in there, is that legal ?

The

 

[Debrahim]

The above are the ONLY issues that you could pull the original electrician on. As well as the bit of the circuit that has not been rewired. Be advised that you must give the original electrician the opportunity to fix those issues before going down the withholding payment or part payment route.
These are also the only things that you need rectified to make the installation totally compliant and safe for continued use. So as far as safety is concerned get the above fixed and you are fine to leave everything as it is.

You do not need a new board - It would just have been "better" if you had at least been given the option of an RCBO setup, But that ship has sailed as it were. There is zero recourse on the people who quoted for you when you simply asked for a fuse board upgrade or indeed if it was part of other works for not offering the RCBO option....It's just that most of us on here find it strange due to the fact that the cost difference these days is minimal and it is "best practice" but not really laid out in black and white in the regulations.

I

I’ve given him the option to fix, he has refused. You will see his excuse in the first page. Apparently a nicely wired consumer board causes a hum and an electronic field. Lol. Now I’ve refused to pay it looks like he will come and do it, and we will go from there.

I wonder why no one quoted for a RCBO, including him. Here everyone says they quote for full rcbo.

Safety comes, so from people saying it should be a RCBO now I will change it, people are saying it’s unnecessary,

Out of interest is a car charger and solar more likely to trigger the RCD ? For £100 + labour I can put them in the board on RCBO’s.

Other than wiskas product is there a way to extend the cables in a fuse board ?

Cheers.

 

[Diddy]

Safety comes, so from people saying it should be a RCBO now I will change it, people are saying it’s unnecessary,

Well cheers for ignoring my and others very clear advice. that advice extends to untidy fuse boards too. there is NO obligation nor regulation which states that work should be neat and tidy. The advice was RCBO's are a "nice to have" as opposed to a must have so again you will be paying twice as you have zero recourse to the installation of the board as it currently stands aside from the gaps where the tails come in.
I don't mean to sound confrontational but I/we have essentially told you where you stand legally and we have also told you that although not "ideal" the use of a dual RCD board with mcb's is NOT against ANY regulations.

I do wish you well in your endeavours. I will leave it to others to answer any further questions as im not a fan of writing out a load of words for them to be ignored. Personally I and a few others are just trying to save you cash while ensuring the installation is at least safe.

 

[buzzlightyear]

If he has refused then your option is to get a independent spark in to write you a report of his findings. Has we give out advice not hear say, if he takes you to court no doubt he will then you will have evidence against him.send him all copy's of the findings ask the indpendant spark to quote regulation numbers and bobs your uncle antie.
Which court I'm in to day old Bailey.

 

[baldelectrician]

I am in the process of quoting a new consumer unit where the client will need a larger consumer unit

She is going for a dual RCD with additional RCBO's for, I will be installing a Hager VML91620CUSPD
She is also getting PV and probably battery storage - this is the reason for the larger unit

Hager also do a change over switch to allow the use of a seperate generator / inverter

This has dual RCD's, and is configurable as well. I still install dual RCD units as I prefer Hager but add 2-3 RCBO's as well

I would suggest you put the lower lights, lower sockets and kitchen sockets on RCBO's

If you had the larger consumer unit (VML90610CUSPD / VML91014CUSPD / VML91620CUSPD) you could remove the lower consumer unit and have all stuff on the same consumer unit

 

[Debrahim]

Well cheers for ignoring my and others very clear advice. that advice extends to untidy fuse boards too. there is NO obligation nor regulation which states that work should be neat and tidy. The advice was RCBO's are a "nice to have" as opposed to a must have so again you will be paying twice as you have zero recourse to the installation of the board as it currently stands aside from the gaps where the tails come in.
I don't mean to sound confrontational but I/we have essentially told you where you stand legally and we have also told you that although not "ideal" the use of a dual RCD board with mcb's is NOT against ANY regulations.

I do wish you well in your endeavours. I will leave it to others to answer any further questions as im not a fan of writing out a load of words for them to be ignored. Personally I and a few others are just trying to save you cash while ensuring the installation is at least safe.

Thanks Diddy but as you will see others have a different view - to the extent some don’t fit them.

Out of interest is this how you leave them ? Would you put your name to it ?