No sign of any earthing in newly installed kitchen... Please Help!

[quinlivanb]

Hey Guys! I'm not an electrician by trade but I need some advice on what seems like a serious safety issue.

Recently bought a flat in an old ex-council building and had a builder in to gut and rebuild the place. He says he got an electrician in to do the work in the kitchen but I have some serious issues with the quality of the work.

Last night when using the dish washer I got a shock when my hands came in contact with the case of the dish-washer (metal) and the kitchen sink (stainless). I was worried by this and assumed it must be an earthing issue so I pulled out some of the new kitchen to take a look.

I found that all the new electrical work in the kitchen was connected to the older system at a single point point and has no earthing connected at all. Please see pictures. Earthing was connected to all the plugs in the kitchen but as you can see the earth wire doesn't go anywhere. My builder says that they just rewired things the way they found it but I was very surprised that he didn't even mention this issue to me. I only found out after getting a shock.

I assume the shock I got was an induced current in the earth wires being grounded via the kitchen sink and the cold water pipe?

When we hired the builder he assured us that all work would be carried out by registered trades-people as we indeed to use this property as a rental and will need all the certificates that go along with this!

I need some advice on this issue. Not worried about the cost of fixing it but just want to get someone in that we can trust.

 

[quinlivanb]

Hello all, again, thank you for the response! I've had a electrician in today to look at the situation and it's just as bad as it looks, and worse in some places. Looks like the whole place is going to need to be rewired and as all the walls are concrete this is going to require some creative solutions. likely going to cost in the region of 3-5000 pounds. Should be sorted by Christmas thank god!

I also got a plumber in to test the new boiler. He informed me that none of the figures of the test sheet made any sense and it was clear that no combustion or any other of the required tests had been carried out. It also appears that the invoice we were given for this plumbing work was fake. Again the builders have clearly lied about getting a plumber in to fit and test the system. Luckily the plumber was able to fix the few minor issues in a few hours and was able to carry out the required tests. All is now safe on that end!

Luckily the builder has emailed us a copy of this false invoice so this should give us some good legal standing ??

 

[Chris E]

Just a suggestion, if you're not already, log every interation in regards to this issue, invoices, emails, telephone calls, quotes, issues, who, where, everything. You may not need a good chunk of it but its always good to have this info to hand.

 

[hightower]

At the risk of sounding like an absolute 'expletive', how does someone find themselves in this situation? I wouldn't let anyone near my house unless I was sure not only of their qualifications, but also of their previous work. We've just spent £13k on an extension, but only after quotes from various companies and then only after having heard satisfactory reviews (from people we trust) on the chosen company. I mean, it's not like you've had a socket added - you've had major work done, surely making sure you get someone trusted is nothing more than common sense?

P.S. This isn't a stab at the OP. I'm genuinely interested how people find themselves in this situation - did you let your guard down OP, or did you do everything anyone parting with thousands of pounds would do and still found yourself in the predicament?

 

[DPG]

What a cowboy - make sure you go as far as you can with this one. As someone else said, he will be doing other jobs like this and could well end up killing someone. Hope you get everything straightened out before Christmas. Daz

 

[Iddy]

What a complete mess...Hope you get it sorted asap...Maybe one off the members on this forum close to your location could take the job on for you..

 

[DPG]

Post photos of any other nasties that you uncover. Daz

 

[Englishman]

At the risk of sounding like an absolute 'expletive', how does someone find themselves in this situation? I wouldn't let anyone near my house unless I was sure not only of their qualifications, but also of their previous work. We've just spent £13k on an extension, but only after quotes from various companies and then only after having heard satisfactory reviews (from people we trust) on the chosen company. I mean, it's not like you've had a socket added - you've had major work done, surely making sure you get someone trusted is nothing more than common sense?

P.S. This isn't a stab at the OP. I'm genuinely interested how people find themselves in this situation - did you let your guard down OP, or did you do everything anyone parting with thousands of pounds would do and still found yourself in the predicament?

I think they either go with the first quote, do very little research on the company in question, or they've chosen the cheapest. It's as simple as that, I suspect it's the latter, and if it is, then you're simply asking for something like this.

 

[Midwest]

Hello all, again, thank you for the response! I've had a electrician in today to look at the situation and it's just as bad as it looks, and worse in some places. Looks like the whole place is going to need to be rewired and as all the walls are concrete this is going to require some creative solutions. likely going to cost in the region of 3-5000 pounds. Should be sorted by Christmas thank god!

Don't want to sound a bit of a killjoy, but as its going to cost £3-5k and the 'walls are concrete', do you think it's realistic to think its going to be sorted in 8 days? Unless you've got DIY SOS going in.

 

[Englishman]

Also, I'm assuming hat the only electrics altered were in the kitchen? In which case, why does the entire lot need rewiring? I suspect that this isn't the case, and would certainly not be going with just one quote again.

 

[ruston]

Also, I'm assuming hat the only electrics altered were in the kitchen? In which case, why does the entire lot need rewiring? I suspect that this isn't the case, and would certainly not be going with just one quote again.

If it is a concrete building then maybe Lucien's post 4 has it summed up.
I would also want further opinions before I get bitten again.

 

[newtothis]

I'm sorry for the OPs trouble, Feel a bit bad trying to gain some knowledge on the back of this.
Is there any logic, for cutting back the CPC.
What I mean is: is it just sheer malicious laziness and ignorance.
Is there any remote circumstance under the sun whereby someone could attempt a justification ?
I know about double insulated appliances were the earth is put it a connector for neatness if the flex has a cpc, anything else ??

 

[R G]

I'm sorry for the OPs trouble, Feel a bit bad trying to gain some knowledge on the back of this.
Is there any logic, for cutting back the CPC.
What I mean is: is it just sheer malicious laziness and ignorance.
Is there any remote circumstance under the sun whereby someone could attempt a justification ?
I know about double insulated appliances were the earth is put it a connector for neatness if the flex has a cpc, anything else ??

Chances are the builder has done that nice little job and couldn't give a monkeys as long as the appliances operated ..

 

[newtothis]

Chances are the builder has done that nice little job and couldn't give a monkeys as long as the appliances operated ..

Thanks Mate,

I see what all the guys have said. I accept it without question, this is rancid job.

In the past I’ve been guilty of being too quick to be squeamish about stuff I’ve seen. Mostly old installs. When I’ve flagged it up, its turned out I’m talking about stuff that’s fully compliant. Making myself look like a proper burke.
If I see anything like this..... I’ll know it’s totally wrong.

 

[davesparks]

Hello all, again, thank you for the response! I've had a electrician in today to look at the situation and it's just as bad as it looks, and worse in some places. Looks like the whole place is going to need to be rewired and as all the walls are concrete this is going to require some creative solutions. likely going to cost in the region of 3-5000 pounds. Should be sorted by Christmas thank god!

What reasons did he give for needing the whole place rewired?

As a general rule anyone so short of work on the last couple of weeks before December that they can manage a complete rewire in time for Christmas is unlikely to be much better than the previous bloke!

 

[Sparkie30]

If you decide to chase the floors better be careful. Had to deal with this once because they decided to chase the floors.

 

[R G]

Far better to have carried out an EICR and verified what needs to be done and recommendations taken into account to be able to prepare a quotations for the work required ....

 

[ruston]

If you decide to chase the floors better be careful. Had to deal with this once because they decided to chase the floors.

View attachment 30954

Another bodge there too though, those pipes should have been protected from the concrete.

 

[Sparkie30]

Another bodge there too though, those pipes should have been protected from the concrete.

No mate the are not pipes, they were MI cables feeding 3 flats.

 

[ruston]

Ooops, even worse.

 

[K Macnamara]

The problem is with the notification process. Unless you are installing a new circuit with a new fuse at the board, replacing the board or carrying out work within a special location containing a bath or a shower then the work doesnt have to be notified. In my experience you can be a successfully busy sparks and issue valid certs to domestic properties without ever having to be Part P registered even when building control are involved!!! I would even go as far as to say that it is now only a real requirement to be registered if your work is for social housing or new builds. But all work that involves altering a circuit should be tested and certified. The difficulty is if there is no previous documentation in relation to the existing installation then it would be difficult to confirm the work that has been done.

However, saying that from looking at the photos you have serious issues and they could be easily rectified. As stated with my fellow experts get an independent assessment. Its is fair to say that it is easy to pick faults in others work but you know that already. If I was you to expect to pay no more than £200 for a report (EICR) for the whole property if they charge a day rate or £35 per circuit/fuse at the board. These do not necessarily have to be carried out by a Part P registered electrician just a qualified/skilled person. Get at least 3 quotes and take the middle price or ask the most expensive quote to match the middle price. If you're struggling to find electricians then contact your local council or go to the NICEIC website and you'll find help there. Trading standards may be reluctant to get involved until you try to have communication with the builder to let them rectify the problem. But I can't be certain on that.

It is now Christmas Morning by 4 minutes and I have to be a responsible father and husband and end here. Although I could waffle on as this forum is my new vice. I note you live in the big smoke and with me being in the Luton area maybe able to help so ask and we'll see what occurs.

Anyway Merry Xmas

Kevin

 

[The Ghost]

Frankly if I visited your house and saw that I would advise to disconnect all power to the kitchen immediately, you or kids you have maybe in danger of death by electrocution. Switch off kitchen supply now and get someone in.

 

[HandySparks]

Frankly if I visited your house and saw that I would advise to disconnect all power to the kitchen immediately, you or kids you have maybe in danger of death by electrocution. Switch off kitchen supply now and get someone in.

He got someone in 2 weeks ago.