rewiring

[AJAY198887]

Hi, I have just bought a ground floor massinette, and asked my electrician for an electrician certificate. He went into the property and opened a few sockets to have a look at the wiring behind. The wiring looks in extremely good condition but is only black and red separate single wires (not 2 wires in an outer casing). There is no earth wire. The sockets have a wooden box behind them instead of the more modern metal ones. My electrician has stated that I have to have the full rewiring redone in the whole flat. I just wanted to check if there was any way around having to get the full rewiring done as the massionette is fully decorated to a high spec.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Pete999]

Hi, I have just bought a ground floor massinette, and asked my electrician for an electrician certificate. He went into the property and opened a few sockets to have a look at the wiring behind. The wiring looks in extremely good condition but is only black and red separate single wires (not 2 wires in an outer casing). There is no earth wire. The sockets have a wooden box behind them instead of the more modern metal ones. My electrician has stated that I have to have the full rewiring redone in the whole flat. I just wanted to check if there was any way around having to get the full rewiring done as the massionette is fully decorated to a high spec.
Thanks in advance.

Did "your Electrician" get any test instruments out or did he just take a few accessories of and take a look, before you do anything, get a reputable Electrician in to carry out an Electrical Installation Condition Report more commonly called an EICR, may cost about £200 but at least you will have written and documented evidence that the installation is either OK or not.

 

[AJAY198887]

He did take out an instrument that he plugged into the sockets and said the readings are a little bit low. The fuse box is brand new (17th edition).

 

[Wilko]

Plot thickens - new CU and no earths? Hmmm.
Big reason to get a proper report as Pete says.

 

[SparkyChick]

A photo of the back of the sockets would be good if you have one, but I agree with Pete.

 

[westward10]

Seen light switches on wood backings, never a socket.

 

[buzzlightyear]

if It cost you a arm & leg for place in London ,you would thought getting a electrical test done .
even if it is high speck . you would not buy a rolls Royce with out seats .

 

[7029 dave]

IMO, he could be correct, wooden back boxes is a no no, in the sense if it needed rewiring they would need to be changed, is it red black pvc or VIR.? More info is needed regarding his test, could be low IR.

 

[The Ghost]

If you have a new 17th edition CU, you must have an Electrical Installation Certificate for it when you purchased. As "Enquiries" by your conveyancer would have picked this up and requested appropriate certification. On the other hand it could not be certified if there was no earth. In fact I for one would not agree to put a new CU in an installation with no earth. Have you a copy of the certificate. If this was not flagged during conveyance and settled with a certificate I would be suing the conveyancer.

 

[The Ghost]

Has anyone ever seen wooden back boxes??? I have seen plinths/pattress but never sunken box. I suspect this is metal conduit with singles drawn through. If so I may be possible to draw an earth through and change the boxes. A picture would soon scotch that conjecture.

 

[Pete999]

IMO, he could be correct, wooden back boxes is a no no, in the sense if it needed rewiring they would need to be changed, is it red black pvc or VIR.? More info is needed regarding his test, could be low IR.

More likely a" Socket and See Tester" could be a DIY Dave electrician.

 

[westward10]

Has anyone ever seen wooden back boxes??? I have seen plinths/pattress but never sunken box. I suspect this is metal conduit with singles drawn through. If so I may be possible to draw an earth through and change the boxes. A picture would soon scotch that conjecture.

Still see them generally on the lighting even though the power may have been rewired. Actually found one last year on the stairs lighting all the rest was okay.

 

[Dave OCD]

Has anyone ever seen wooden back boxes??? I have seen plinths/pattress but never sunken box. I suspect this is metal conduit with singles drawn through. If so I may be possible to draw an earth through and change the boxes. A picture would soon scotch that conjecture.

I've seen plenty of flush wooden switch boxes but never with sockets.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Hi, I have just bought a ground floor maisonette, and asked my electrician for an electrician certificate

if you brought a bottom flat why are you asking for your electrician for test cert if its had a new board then it should had one in the beginning .

 

[buzzlightyear]

is there any test date on the 17 th board .

 

[7029 dave]

More likely a" Socket and See Tester" could be a DIY Dave electrician.

And was is wrong with Dave.?

 

[Pete999]

is there any test date on the 17 th board .

Yep "the reading was a bit low"

 

[Pete999]

And was is wrong with Dave.?

Which Dave are you talking about?

 

[telectrix]

could even be conduit with the condiut used as cpc. further investigation by a competent electrician id needed before you go ripping the flat apart to rewire.

 

[drzsta]

Get another opinion from another electrician.

Like others, I haven't seen an installation where the socket patrices are wooden - only light switches.

 

[7029 dave]

Used to use these on wooden switch boxes, believe you can't use them anymore.

View attachment 35596

 

[buzzlightyear]

drzsta ,how is the land of my fathers.

 

[telectrix]

drzsta ,how is the land of my fathers.

what planet?

 

[buzzlightyear]

only drzsta can give you the answer telectrix I will give you a clue dragon .

 

[AJAY198887]

IMO, he could be correct, wooden back boxes is a no no, in the sense if it needed rewiring they would need to be changed, is it red black pvc or VIR.? More info is needed regarding his test, could be low IR.

Yes sir the red and black wire are pvc and very good condition

 

[Dave the spark]

Yes sir the red and black wire are pvc and very good condition

How do you know that they're in good condition? Looking at them inside the dB or at a socket or switch tells you nothing I'm afraid. To know they are in good condition you need to put 500v through them and see what the meter tells you.

 

[Dave the spark]

Also, you would need to know if there is a CPC serving the length of the ring final circuit, which as there's no earth conductor and wooden boxes I would highly doubt it. Again though, this needs to be ascertained through the correct test procedures.

 

[davesparks]

Also, you would need to know if there is a CPC serving the length of the ring final circuit, which as there's no earth conductor and wooden boxes I would highly doubt it. Again though, this needs to be ascertained through the correct test procedures.

It's in steel conduit, therefore there must be a cpc at every point already

 

[davesparks]

Has anyone ever seen wooden back boxes??? I have seen plinths/pattress but never sunken box. I suspect this is metal conduit with singles drawn through. If so I may be possible to draw an earth through and change the boxes. A picture would soon scotch that conjecture.

Steel conduit is a cpc so why would you add another one inside it?

 

[buzzlightyear]

Yes sir the red and black wire are pvc and very good condition

picture would be nice.

 

[Pete999]

Steel conduit is a cpc so why would you add another one inside it?

I agree wooden boxes is a bit suspect, but saying that stranger things have been found, if it is indeen serviced by wooden boxes the conduit could not be used as the cpc as it wouldn't be continuous. But as others have inquired a picture and proof of the wooden box statement would put the debate to rest.

 

[Dave the spark]

It's in steel conduit, therefore there must be a cpc at every point already

I realise it's in steel conduit. How is the continuity met if they terminate in wooden boxes?

 

[Dave OCD]

It'll be that special treated low resistance wood they used in the old days.

 

[Pete999]

It'll be that special treated low resistance wood they used in the old days.

Now you are just being plain silly aren't you Dave? go and stand on the naughty step for the rest of the evening.

 

[Dave OCD]

Yes Pete, I think a little bit of silliness is needed every now and then.

 

[Dave the spark]

It'll be that special treated low resistance wood they used in the old days.

Nah mate, you're barking up the wrong tree...

 

[Dave OCD]

Not sure, they stocked them years ago in my local branch.

 

[Pete999]

Yes Pete, I think a little bit of silliness is needed every now and then.

I agree with that

 

[Des 56]

I suspect the wood is easily identified,it must come from the trees they use to catch those lightning bolts

 

[davesparks]

I agree wooden boxes is a bit suspect, but saying that stranger things have been found, if it is indeen serviced by wooden boxes the conduit could not be used as the cpc as it wouldn't be continuous. But as others have inquired a picture and proof of the wooden box statement would put the debate to rest.

The conduit can still be used as the CPC as long a suitable flylead is connected. There were, and still are suitable conduit fittings for connecting a fly lead to a conduit.

I realise they weren't available in the past but these days I use the piranha nuts on the end of steel conduit if I'm running it in to an insulated enclosure .

 

[davesparks]

I realise it's in steel conduit. How is the continuity met if they terminate in wooden boxes?

I do know without seeing it, but there are a few different ways. There is such a thing as a coupler with a terminal fixed to the outside which is used to connect a flylead to the conduit.

 

[bigspark17]

I have no problem running a cpc withing steel conduit as well as fly leads. Belt & braces imo

 

[Pete999]

The conduit can still be used as the CPC as long a suitable flylead is connected. There were, and still are suitable conduit fittings for connecting a fly lead to a conduit.

I realise they weren't available in the past but these days I use the piranha nuts on the end of steel conduit if I'm running it in to an insulated enclosure .

Sorry Dave you are saying that if the conduit is not connected into the box (if it's wooden) then use a connection via a flying lead connected to the conduit, that would be a tad difficult with the tube being buried in the plaster, don't you think? good idea though.

 

[Dave the spark]

Also, you would need to know if there is a CPC serving the length of the ring final circuit, which as there's no earth conductor and wooden boxes I would highly doubt it. Again though, this needs to be ascertained through the correct test procedures.

It's in steel conduit, therefore there must be a cpc at every point already

I do know without seeing it, but there are a few different ways. There is such a thing as a coupler with a terminal fixed to the outside which is used to connect a flylead to the conduit.

You've told me that because it's in a steel conduit it must have a CPC at every point. Then you've told ne, when I asked how continuity was achieved that you don't know without seeing it.

So which is it?

 

[GMES]

Battle of the Dave sparks, who will win, only one way to find out....FIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHTTTT

 

[David M]

Its all pointless! Until we have more detail there is no right or wrong advise to give regarding the condition of the installation.

To the O.P

As already mentioned - get a reputable electrician in to do a proper inspection and test. Then come back to us with his/her detailed report.

 

[Dave the spark]

Also, you would need to know if there is a CPC serving the length of the ring final circuit, which as there's no earth conductor and wooden boxes I would highly doubt it. Again though, this needs to be ascertained through the correct test procedures.

It's in steel conduit, therefore there must be a cpc at every point already

@GMES I win

 

[Hellmooth]

Davesparks is never wrong so he wins.........

 

[Pete999]

I have no problem running a cpc withing steel conduit as well as fly leads. Belt & braces imo

No that's by far the best solution if what we are being told

Davesparks is never wrong so he wins.........

Crawler

 

[Hellmooth]

No that's by far the best solution if what we are being told

Crawler

Sarcasm over ones head Pete