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  1. mattrgee
    Offline

    mattrgee EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    Hi all,

    DIYer here. My garage has a double socket fed by 4mm2 twin and earth connected to the same circuit breaker has the ring main for the sockets upstairs in the house. The MCB is a B32.

    Is the feed in the garage considered a spur from the ring main or is it a separate radial circuit which happens to be on the same MCB? Ideally I'd like to add more sockets to the circuit in the garage (using 4mm2) but is this safe or allowed?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    It's a spur so no more sockets can be added ....

    If you change the socket for a fused spur, then you can have as many sockets as you like, limited to 13 amps

    These sockets must be protected by an rcd
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    It would be considered a spur and being 4.0 its method of installation would dictate whether it could carry 32A and be added to. Spurred points from ring final circuits are normally limited as to the number of points which can be served but the 4.0 clouds that a bit. It sounds like the garage socket has been a later addition and connected to the existing ring final circuit and if the existing circuit is wired using 2.5/2.5 conductors it is not ideal to have differing sizes at the same protective device, are there spare ways in your consumer unit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. Pete999
    Offline

    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    Business Name:
    None
    If the 4mm2 is on the same circuit breaker as the RFC then it is a Spur, as for adding more sockets to the 4mm2you would need to swap the double socket for a Fused spur unit and add sockets from that spur unit, remember the extra sockets will be limited to 13Amps governed by the fuse in the spur unit.
    Another method would be to take the 4mm2 to a seperate CB (providing there is one) and form a 32 Amp Radial to your Garage (assuming it's an atatched Garage), the proviso being is that your Garage would need RCD protection, if the garage is a standalone then a different set of rules apply.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Bad Spelling Bad Spelling x 1
  5. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    The question as to whether this 4.0 can take 32A is down to its installation method. The spur is somewhat unconventional as it stands.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Dumb Dumb x 1
  6. Murdoch
    Offline

    Murdoch Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Woking
    it's the supply to a 2G socket so the max load is 20a
     
  7. mattrgee
    Offline

    mattrgee EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    The 4.0 is clipped along a roof joist in the garage, exposed to the air, no insulation etc. The consumer unit is actually in the garage, but there is no space for additional circuits.

    We've only been in the house a few months so trying to understand what work has been done previously.
     
  8. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    I am considering whether it can be added to.
     
  9. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    Theoretically you could add to it but the best course is to connect to its own protective device but this is obviously not possible.
     
  10. Pete999
    Offline

    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    Business Name:
    None
    It could be if there is a Fused Spur Unit instead of the twin socket, the add some extra sockets, where is the problem with that?
     
  11. westward10
    Offline

    westward10 In echoed steps I walk across an empty dream. Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Northamptonshire
    The spur is 4.0 clipped direct so in theory if he uses the same size of cable and installation method as the existing he could add direct to it. Personally I would like to see it on its own circuit.
     
  12. Spoon
    Offline

    Spoon Trusted Advisor

    Location:
    Lancashire
    What are you intending to plug into these sockets.
    Is the 32A breaker protected by an RCD?
     
  13. mattrgee
    Offline

    mattrgee EF Member

    Location:
    Manchester
    Yes, protected by RCD. Sockets will be used for drill charging, Henry vacuum cleaner etc.
     
  14. Risteard
    Offline

    Risteard Electrician's Arms

    Location:
    Derry, Ireland
    Business Name:
    Walsh Electrical Services
    I would consider it wholly unsatisfactory to have mixed sizes of cable connected in the DB like that. You're practically screaming to get poor connections.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. Pete999
    Offline

    Pete999 Trusted Advisor

    Top Poster Of Month

    Location:
    Northampton
    Business Name:
    None
    A spur equates to One double or single socket
    A One fused or unfused spur unit
    A One fusedspur feeding a Fixed appliance.
    The only way you can add more than one socket is on a 4mm2 32 or 30 Amp radial circuit if adding more than one the the cable used must be the same as the circuit is wired in 4mm2, this is the same for a 20Radial circuit wired in 2.5mm2
    As the circuit in question is a Ring FC adding more than one unfused socket is not allowed
     
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