What is a Domestic Installer ?

[OllieNotts]

I can understand the ill feeling towards the 5 week lads, especially those who say they have no choice but then I guess they haven't actually done anything wrong. I am starting college full time in sept for level 2 2330 and will hopefully complete level 3 the year after. I have a question.....what will I be?It's all about 5 week lads or full on apprentiships and nothing has been said about the lad who like me gives up his full time job to go on an agency driving at weekends to keep the bills paid while trying to better myself etc. I am concerned about the apparent lack of work and amount of non sparks carrying out spark work but my long term goal is com/ind not domestic so not sure where I'll start lol Just to add also, please remember every job Market is saturated at the minute these are the times. I drive an artic for £7.50 an hour as it's seen as unskilled work, I've already been warned I'll only earn £11-12 upon qualification if I get a job etc which would be great for me and my family life! Anyway just wondered how us college go'ers are seen in the trade as we're neither of the breed currently being argued about

 

[shanky887614]

go for the 2330 lvl2 i just finished mine a few weeks ago,

with what they were saying a few pages back

someone with city + guilds 2330 lvl2 is only qulified to install stuff and do dead tests - bassically useless becasue you have to do live tests to sign it off

the reason they say that people with 2330 lvl3 are electricians is that they are allowed to sign of there own work but they recomend that you do c+g 2391 to cover your own back if you get taken to court

all you really need is lvl3/lvl3 nvq electrical

our tutor recomends am2 and after that they have been telling us you dont need to go any further

 

[dandb]

I'd probably say more like 80% lol.

Just one question, if you studied for 6 years why would you no do the correct technical exams and become a "properly qualified" electrician. Although you only do houses at the minute you never know when you might want to expand. To me you are not a "proper" electrician unless you can show me your JIB card, or have the quals required to get a JIB card. No offense.

2330 lvl 2 and 3
17th Edition
Part P
2391

Paul

When/If I need to expand my business I will do. But at the moment it really doesnt matter if I have Electrical Contactor or Domestic Installer on the side of my van.

Within a domestic property I can do the same job as anyone on here. So if your saying I am not a 'proper electrician' then no-one is.

Oh yeah.......No offense

 

[Spectrum]

When I last looked at Domestic Installer status they were not allowed to carry out Periodic Inspection Reports. Now it would appear that they are allowed. Most of the DI's that I have met seem barely able to change a plug top let alone comment on the safety of an installation.

 

[Big n Daft]

I cant understand why anybody would want to enter a trade as divided and torn apart as ours.
If somebdoy asks me 'what trade shall i do', wood butcher is the answer for the following reasons:
1, More pay
2, Better thought of
3, No schemes welching money from you for the right to do your chosen trade.
4, No body telling you cant cut a particular type of wood because youve not got the certification.
And most of
5, Once a joiner always a joiner. You dont find many 25yr joiners unable to work on domestic properties do you? And having to pay for the privilage.:banghead:

Thats why this trade is knackered.
All those that want to join the trade, carry on. But please, do it properly. Work yourself up to the level of sparks.
To me its all very simple, you are semi skilled/trainee until you can carry out ALL aspects of electrical installation work, have enough time behind you and passed the correct eggsams:cheesy:.
In order to answer the next question. Yes, a domestic installer is semi skilled and should be supervised at all times because they are not electricians.
This kids to feed, mortgage to pay argument is not good enough. Be a joiner you've got far less chance of starting a fire.
Just one last question for those wanting to get into the trade to earn money, why did you choose leccying? My guess is because people will take the easiest route to earn good money and Gas Safe is a bit difficult, isnt it?
Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but I'm a very disgruntled 25yr bear thats sick to the back teeth of watching his trade carved up to satisfy greedy money men that have no right to tell me what I cannot do when they dont know a IGBT from an MGB GT. Labourers and apprentices used to work on houses to gain experience, now its whole new trade!!!! What a load of old rubbish.
If you want to become an electrician then. become one. Dont use a DI course to get a foot in the door, because its worth nothing, go and be a sparks mate for a few years whilst going to college then have a go at an AM2.

 

[markharris]

Boring thread which has been done to death, nothing will change, deal with it .

 

[Big n Daft]

Boring thread which has been done to death, nothing will change, deal with it .

Read summat else then.
Leave this to those that care about the trade.

 

[focusphil]

I cant understand why anybody would want to enter a trade as divided and torn apart as ours.
If somebdoy asks me 'what trade shall i do', wood butcher is the answer for the following reasons:
1, More pay
2, Better thought of
3, No schemes welching money from you for the right to do your chosen trade.
4, No body telling you cant cut a particular type of wood because youve not got the certification.
And most of
5, Once a joiner always a joiner. You dont find many 25yr joiners unable to work on domestic properties do you? And having to pay for the privilage.:banghead:

Thats why this trade is knackered.
All those that want to join the trade, carry on. But please, do it properly. Work yourself up to the level of sparks.
To me its all very simple, you are semi skilled/trainee until you can carry out ALL aspects of electrical installation work, have enough time behind you and passed the correct eggsams:cheesy:.
In order to answer the next question. Yes, a domestic installer is semi skilled and should be supervised at all times because they are not electricians.
This kids to feed, mortgage to pay argument is not good enough. Be a joiner you've got far less chance of starting a fire.
Just one last question for those wanting to get into the trade to earn money, why did you choose leccying? My guess is because people will take the easiest route to earn good money and Gas Safe is a bit difficult, isnt it?
Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but I'm a very disgruntled 25yr bear thats sick to the back teeth of watching his trade carved up to satisfy greedy money men that have no right to tell me what I cannot do when they dont know a IGBT from an MGB GT. Labourers and apprentices used to work on houses to gain experience, now its whole new trade!!!! What a load of old rubbish.
If you want to become an electrician then. become one. Dont use a DI course to get a foot in the door, because its worth nothing, go and be a sparks mate for a few years whilst going to college then have a go at an AM2.

How derogatory of other trades (wood butchers) if I were you I wouldn't go voicing your opinion around on many sites!
as for domestic installers I personally think it requires a great deal of care and skill to work in peoples houses,I have seen commercial / industrial sparkys working on expensive
propertys and they dont have the finesse, if you were working on domestics would you say to the client THIS IS NOT SKILLED WORK I WILL CHARGE YOU LESS!!!

(why do some people think they're so special)

 

[Big n Daft]

How derogatory of other trades (wood butchers) if I were you I wouldn't go voicing your opinion around on many sites!
as for domestic installers I personally think it requires a great deal of care and skill to work in peoples houses,I have seen commercial / industrial sparkys working on expensive
propertys and they dont have the finesse, if you were working on domestics would you say to the client THIS IS NOT SKILLED WORK I WILL CHARGE YOU LESS!!!

(why do some people think they're so special)

First off, I guess youve not worked many sites with a decent amount of banter.
Second, yes it does take care to work in peoples houses but skill is pushing it bit. I'll not even comment on the finesse..........
Third, I do charge less. Householders do not pay the rates I demand for commercial/industrial work.
Fourth, I am special because I can do so much more than wire a bloody house that anybody with 7 weeks training can do
:cheesy:

 

[focusphil]

First off, I guess youve not worked many sites with a decent amount of banter.
Second, yes it does take care to work in peoples houses but skill is pushing it bit. I'll not even comment on the finesse..........
Third, I do charge less. Householders do not pay the rates I demand for commercial/industrial work.
Fourth, I am special because I can do so much more than wire a bloody house that anybody with 7 weeks training can do
:cheesy:

so let the house bashers bash and dont moan,you do your proper work !!!!

 

[markharris]

care about the trade my --- ! its just full of people dripping that they got seen off for two or three years making tea, when people have become equally qualified in a fraction of the time.....I'm done!

 

[markharris]

so let the house bashers bash and dont moan,you do your proper work !!!!

I agree.... blah ! blah ! I did an apprenticeship which makes me a fully qualified rocket scienctist yada-yada-yada
:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[baldsparkies]

Now for a direct comparison. Topic aside though.
I love to fly light aircraft in my spare time. Cessna 180 single prop mainly.
On a flight to the states, another passenger got into conversation with me and said "So could you fly this 747 then ??
I replied, I may have a better chance than someone who has never flown an aircraft before. But I simply do not have the expertise or experiance to handle a heavy haul 4 engined trans-atlantic jet.
Common sense, logical answer to a chap who really had no real concept of the differance between the two. (Which is fair enough) some people don't.
When I see a commercial airline pilot, and because I have a limited concept of aircraft flight and control, I am full of admiration for there abilities and level of training. Bottom line, they are commited professionals who have gone the extra miles to become what they are within there profession.
Now, for the love of pete, can you guys who are limited to house bashing domestic work, use a little bit of common, and admire those who have chosen to study hard and gain the experiance to become commercial installation electricians. It IS the extra mile and should be given the respect it deserves.

 

[focusphil]

Now for a direct comparison. Topic aside though.
I love to fly light aircraft in my spare time. Cessna 180 single prop mainly.
On a flight to the states, another passenger got into conversation with me and said "So could you fly this 747 then ??
I replied, I may have a better chance than someone who has never flown an aircraft before. But I simply do not have the expertise or experiance to handle a heavy haul 4 engined trans-atlantic jet.
Common sense, logical answer to a chap who really had no real concept of the differance between the two. (Which is fair enough) some people don't.
When I see a commercial airline pilot, and because I have a limited concept of aircraft flight and control, I am full of admiration for there abilities and level of training. Bottom line, they are commited professionals who have gone the extra miles to become what they are within there profession.
Now, for the love of pete, can you guys who are limited to house bashing domestic work, use a little bit of common, and admire those who have chosen to study hard and gain the experiance to become commercial installation electricians. It IS the extra mile and should be given the respect it deserves.

domestic installers are not the ones moaning! Have you heard the saying (you have to give respect to earn respect)

 

[Engineer54]

care about the trade my --- ! its just full of people dripping that they got seen off for two or three years making tea, when people have become equally qualified in a fraction of the time.....I'm done!

Often heard this type of crap about apprenticeships, generally from those that never did a full indentured apprenticeship, or anything like one. But i'm sure they would know best, ...Right??

You sir, are talking absolute rot!! and that's being Kind to you!!!

 

[markharris]

Now for a direct comparison. Topic aside though.
I love to fly light aircraft in my spare time. Cessna 180 single prop mainly.
On a flight to the states, another passenger got into conversation with me and said "So could you fly this 747 then ??
I replied, I may have a better chance than someone who has never flown an aircraft before. But I simply do not have the expertise or experiance to handle a heavy haul 4 engined trans-atlantic jet.
Common sense, logical answer to a chap who really had no real concept of the differance between the two. (Which is fair enough) some people don't.
When I see a commercial airline pilot, and because I have a limited concept of aircraft flight and control, I am full of admiration for there abilities and level of training. Bottom line, they are commited professionals who have gone the extra miles to become what they are within there profession.
Now, for the love of pete, can you guys who are limited to house bashing domestic work, use a little bit of common, and admire those who have chosen to study hard and gain the experiance to become commercial installation electricians. It IS the extra mile and should be given the respect it deserves.

what utter bollox, your'e now comparing an apprenticeship served electrician as an elite example of a human being. Working in commercial installations isn't difficult so don't try and make out your a nuclear physicist. The powers that be who are more qualified than you...yeah! even you, have decided that these six week wonders can do the job maybe not aswell as you to begin with, but with a little time and experience will develop into capable and enthusiastic electricians. So face the fact that people don't need to spend three years getting £100 a week, going to college to once a week, and making tea 100 times a week to become qualified..end of!

 

[grimysparks80]

Now for a direct comparison. Topic aside though.
I love to fly light aircraft in my spare time. Cessna 180 single prop mainly.
On a flight to the states, another passenger got into conversation with me and said "So could you fly this 747 then ??
I replied, I may have a better chance than someone who has never flown an aircraft before. But I simply do not have the expertise or experiance to handle a heavy haul 4 engined trans-atlantic jet.
Common sense, logical answer to a chap who really had no real concept of the differance between the two. (Which is fair enough) some people don't.
When I see a commercial airline pilot, and because I have a limited concept of aircraft flight and control, I am full of admiration for there abilities and level of training. Bottom line, they are commited professionals who have gone the extra miles to become what they are within there profession.
Now, for the love of pete, can you guys who are limited to house bashing domestic work, use a little bit of common, and admire those who have chosen to study hard and gain the experiance to become commercial installation electricians. It IS the extra mile and should be given the respect it deserves.

I agree. I am a house basher at the mo. I have plenty of domestic and light commercial experience and did 3 year apprenticeship, but would struggle in an industrial job.
One thing i would say tho is that its pretty difficult to find experience doing industrial work as companies advertising it always want experience in the first place.
I am a careful and concientous worker and if i ever got chance to work under supervision on industrial stuff i like to think I could pick it up pretty quickly. But i often have a look for these kind of jobs and dont believe id have a chance with my limited experience.
It makes me wonder who will do these jobs when all you fine gents finally retire. Real apprenticeships seem to be a thing of the past.

 

[markharris]

QUOTE=Engineer54;330255]Often heard this type of crap about apprenticeships, generally from those that never did a full indentured apprenticeship, or anything like one. But i'm sure they would know best, ...Right??

You sir, are talking absolute rot!! and that's being Kind to you!!![/QUOTE]

tea, white one sugar......go!!!!!!
:wink5:

 

[baldsparkies]

domestic installers are not the ones moaning! Have you heard the saying (you have to give respect to earn respect)

Better than that my boy! I know what it means.

 

[Engineer54]

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about fully indentured apprentices!! I can assure you i wasn't ''allowed'' to make anyone tea during my period of training, ...Too much work going on!!!

This tea making lark is an old fallacy, i'm sure it went on to some small degree, but certainly not within factories and the larger electrical contracting companies....