3 core twin and earth cable what colour should you use as the neutral

[stubo300]

3 core twin and earth cable what colour should you use as the neutral. Or can u use any. As long as u label it with blue sleve

 

[malcolmsanford]

Had to think .................isn't it grey so as not to confuse the black with the old neutral colour ......

 

[Sintra]

I think it is a NICEIC recommendation that the grey is used and sleeved obviously, although it shouldn't matter so long as all cores are correctly sleeved.

 

[mogga]

the ESC suggest using the grey so not to confuse new and old colours but so long as they are sleeved correctly any could be used Grey is just prefered

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The thinking is to remove the association of black with neutral...as black is now a phase colour.....this ignores the fact that 90% of the UK neutrals are ,and will be for a long time to come....er....black.....makes perfect sense dont it?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Just make sure you use the same colour at each end of the cable.

 

[mechelec]

like when using 3 core armoured for single phase, sleeve the black with green yellow and grey with blue.

 

[piccollo]

Think of the new reccommended harmonise connections. Red to Brown Yellow to Black & Blue to Grey. We always used yellow for earth [ if using 3 core SWA for single phase ] so now use Black [ with G/Y sleeve]. Blue was Neutral so Grey is Neutral [with Blue sleeve]. However I've seen [ & others proberly have] Black for Neutral & Grey for Earth. As stated as long as it is identified both ends there is no problem, regards piccollo

 

[telectrix]

use whatever you want. they'll probably change all the colours again when the suits want to justify their huge salaries for sitting on their ***** telling us all what we can and can't do

 

[Amp David]

Just make sure you use the same colour at each end of the cable.

This is where i've been going wrong!

 

[nick611]

ever notice that when we used blue in the old triple we didnt sleeve it black, after all blue was a phase colour back then. myself i use the black with blue sleeve, it just makes sence dos,nt it

 

[keefy]

GREY, it has to be consistent. I shoot people for using the black as neutral, just for fun mind!

 

[ste mac]

I use the grey as neutral as it is the opposite side of the cpc to the brown as in 2c twin & earth

 

[nick611]

so when you use a triple at a 2 gang sw, brown across the top and grey and black as sw lines your neutral and earths [black + grey] are both live cables. like i said its up to you as long as its sleeved. no one told us to use yellow and blue like we did we just did it. so now we can use black and grey as we like

 

[telectrix]

as i said, this time next year it will be pink, purple and orange, with red as earth

 

[keefy]

Not quite Nick. There needs to be a standard so we all know what is going on, that's the idea of having identification in the first place. In a 2 way all are line conductors so there is no ambiguity, whereas in a switched circuit (IE PIR) ther has to be one who is neutral, and thats grey. Using yellow as the CPC and blue as neutral in RYB colours was easy as blue was then recognised as neutral in flexes, and yellow... well that's obvious. When the new colours were introduced the NIC and others were quick to make a standard to enable all to understand the colours, it will make your life easier if you go to a job and there is no sleeving!

 

[Sintra]

If the bloke before you can't be bothered to sleeve the cores then he isn't going to worry what colour the neutral is.


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[telectrix]

nah. use em anyhow and sleeve em in red, yellow and blue. then we're back to sensibility.

 

[keefy]

If the bloke before you can't be bothered to sleeve the cores then he isn't going to worry what colour the neutral is.


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If he has paid attention to what colour should be neutral he will. Just because he is lazy does not make it less likely he will use the wrong core.

 

[keefy]

If the bloke before you can't be bothered to sleeve the cores then he isn't going to worry what colour the neutral is.


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If he has paid attention to what colour should be neutral he will. Just because he is lazy does not make it less likely he will use the wrong core.

 

[Sintra]

IMO it would be better to have the "wrong" core used so long as it is sleeved correctly rather than the "correct" core unsleeved.


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[keefy]

IMO it would be better to have the "wrong" core used so long as it is sleeved correctly rather than the "correct" core unsleeved.


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If you are happy being the least wrong in an industry that needs everything to be right to work safely then so be it. It shows your standards.

 

[rmc86uk]

grey with blue sleeving everytime, I have never met anyone who has used black in 3 core PVC/PVC as neutral instead of grey

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[R1CH-G]

Grey is the new blue! Black is earth.

EDIT: That's SWA I'm referring to there! on PVC/PVC the earth is a little more obvious

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I can't see why the black cannot be used.
It used to be the neutral, so why can't it be now?
Seems quite logical to me.

 

[cbw]

Cool.....As said sleave them for my benefit, couldnt work out why I was getting 'odd' readings on testing a faulty bathroom fan..........
.
.

.
.
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Black, Blue and Brown in one, 2 Red and a Brown in another and a Yellow/Green and blue in the last................QUALITY

 

[R1CH-G]

Cool.....As said sleave them for my benefit, couldnt work out why I was getting 'odd' readings on testing a faulty bathroom fan..........
.
.

.
.
.
Black, Blue and Brown in one, 2 Red and a Brown in another and a Yellow/Green and blue in the last................QUALITY

And what's wrong with this picture?

Discuss...

 

[cbw]

out of focus.......d+ for effort

 

[keefy]

The yellow and green is puzzling. Where did it come from? Yellow and green can't be used for anything else for earth/CPC or bonding.

They used the green/yellow in a 3 core flex to feed the extract didn't they? V bad...

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It would appear that an earth is being used as a live conductor?

 

[R1CH-G]

It would appear that an earth is being used as a live conductor?

Seen that done before with SWA as neutral

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Seen that done before with SWA as neutral

In that case, should it be sleeved grey?

 

[R1CH-G]

In that case, should it be sleeved grey?

It was on street lights in an adaptable box post contactor. 3 core SWA cable with 2 cores damaged. Used the SWA as neutral. Should there be grey sleeving on it?

Isolated circuit and locked off. End of.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

No it shouldn't be sleeved grey, just me taking the ****.
It should be correctly identified at the terminations, either by colour or alphanumeric methods.

 

[R1CH-G]

No it shouldn't be sleeved grey, just me taking the ****.

Thought it might be

 

[nick611]

Not quite Nick. There needs to be a standard so we all know what is going on, that's the idea of having identification in the first place. In a 2 way all are line conductors so there is no ambiguity, whereas in a switched circuit (IE PIR) ther has to be one who is neutral, and thats grey. Using yellow as the CPC and blue as neutral in RYB colours was easy as blue was then recognised as neutral in flexes, and yellow... well that's obvious. When the new colours were introduced the NIC and others were quick to make a standard to enable all to understand the colours, it will make your life easier if you go to a job and there is no sleeving!

in an existing 3 phase board their was 2 colours in the neutral bar, black and blue[swa] now you want to put grey in their as well and blacks in the earth bar. and you call this a stanard!!

 

[nick611]

Not quite Nick. There needs to be a standard so we all know what is going on, that's the idea of having identification in the first place. In a 2 way all are line conductors so there is no ambiguity, whereas in a switched circuit (IE PIR) ther has to be one who is neutral, and thats grey. Using yellow as the CPC and blue as neutral in RYB colours was easy as blue was then recognised as neutral in flexes, and yellow... well that's obvious. When the new colours were introduced the NIC and others were quick to make a standard to enable all to understand the colours, it will make your life easier if you go to a job and there is no sleeving!

in an existing 3 phase board their was 2 colours in the neutral bar, black and blue[swa] now you want to put grey in their as well and blacks in the earth bar. and you call this a standard!!

 

[keefy]

A standard is just that, something drawn out that people stick to. If you don't agree with grey as neutral; tough. It was decided a long time ago that was the case and it has to stick. If you continue to be a rebel and create your own system you are creating problems for everyone who works on your installations after you. Just because you have 3 colours in the neutral bar (colour coded with sleeving of course so not to cause confusion) does not make it difficult, it just makes you dim if you don't understand it.

 

[telectrix]

we had a standard. red, yellow, blue, black. every man and his dog knew what was what. then along came the meddling eurine bureau rats in their suits and pink shirts and buggered it all up. so much for British Standards

 

[keefy]

If they really did have their way we would be using black as line on 230. We chose the standard we have now to stop the eurocrats choosing. If you don't like or can't cope with the new colours try buying the old ones. Maybe some people are just too adverse to change.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

If they really did have their way we would be using black as line on 230. We chose the standard we have now to stop the eurocrats choosing. If you don't like or can't cope with the new colours try buying the old ones. Maybe some people are just too adverse to change.

I've been in the industry 30 yrs and am not averse to change....However this country has a long and distinguished tradition of implementing daft ideas....and harmonising cable colours has to be up there with the daftest.
Thanks to this piece of genius thinking we now have a situation where blacks and blues could be either phase or neutral...and drab dingy phase colours which are hard to tell apart in low light..and just to let everyone know how silly wev'e been we have to stick silly stickers over every DB pointing out our sillyness.
The UK is an island...there is no overlapping of wiring systems with our european masters...we didnt need to change.

 

[andyb]

I've been in the industry 30 yrs and am not averse to change....However this country has a long and distinguished tradition of implementing daft ideas....and harmonising cable colours has to be up there with the daftest.

What was daft was the fact that you could buy 100m t&e, and 100m 3 core flex for the same job & they would have different colour conductors. Red & black in one, brown & blue in the other. Two different colours in the same accessory such as a spur or ceiling rose.

 

[keefy]

Yes we are an island but we do work with European electricians. I have worked on a few jobs where they are working on our systems. Yes I understand your point the colours are hard to see and silly stickers sticking over a silly situation, BUT it has changed, like it or not it will stay. We have been changing our colours in various different ways for years since the first regs

 

[thekingiam]

looking at this post i thought immediately yeah its obvious grey is neutral, but as i began to think i have doubts on my own wirring i have done in my house, will need to look at it later!

 

[Apollo]

If they really did have their way we would be using black as line on 230. We chose the standard we have now to stop the eurocrats choosing. If you don't like or can't cope with the new colours try buying the old ones. Maybe some people are just too adverse to change.

Totally wrong, we changed our colours to harmonise with the EU. Can remember going to Germany and working on an installation therearound 1990. Opened up a socket and saw brown and blue and though what the hell are these Germans on. took a local to tell me they use these colour and so would we in future.... So no we didn't choose the standard we fell in line with Europe.....

 

[nick611]

A standard is just that, something drawn out that people stick to. If you don't agree with grey as neutral; tough. It was decided a long time ago that was the case and it has to stick. If you continue to be a rebel and create your own system you are creating problems for everyone who works on your installations after you. Just because you have 3 colours in the neutral bar (colour coded with sleeving of course so not to cause confusion) does not make it difficult, it just makes you dim if you don't understand it.

keefy. where are you taking this standard from? the only thing i can see is that the blue of a three core is now grey, thats true but nowhere does it say that we must use it as the neutral. it is just because we used to use the blue that you think we must now use the grey. if so that is you own decision and not an official standard. as you say i am probally being dim and would be gratefull if you could give me the publication and page no of this standard

 

[Steve1412]

Haven't read all the posts in this thread but have caught the jist of it. Doesnt table 51 state AC power single or three phase circuit neutral colour BLUE?????

 

[nick611]

Haven't read all the posts in this thread but have caught the jist of it. Doesnt table 51 state AC power single or three phase circuit neutral colour BLUE?????

yes steve correct, but we are talking 3c + cpc dommestic cable [no blue] keefy is adament the standard is to use grey but i can find no such official standard,merely that whatever you use is sleeved blue

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As this is about 3core T&E, I'm assuming that there is actually going to be 4 conductors. Brown, Black, Grey and a bare earth.
When I use 3core and earth, It is usually for extractor fans or EM lighting, where a permanent and switched live is required.
In those circumstances, I would use the the Brown as permanent, and Black as a switched live.
This appears to me to be logical, as the fittings usually have terminals marked as L1 and L2. Brown in L1 and Black in L2.
Obviously the grey would in such circumstances, be used for neutral.

 

[RogertheBodger]

I've been in the industry 30 yrs and am not averse to change....However this country has a long and distinguished tradition of implementing daft ideas....and harmonising cable colours has to be up there with the daftest.
Thanks to this piece of genius thinking we now have a situation where blacks and blues could be either phase or neutral...and drab dingy phase colours which are hard to tell apart in low light..and just to let everyone know how silly wev'e been we have to stick silly stickers over every DB pointing out our sillyness.
The UK is an island...there is no overlapping of wiring systems with our european masters...we didnt need to change.

Look what Harmonisation has done for Spain ..............