Accenta Min G4 with AG6 problem bell

[chilworth]

Hello, I'm new here and after some advice. I'm installing an Accenta Mini G4 Alarm with Honeywell AG6 Bell (SAB). I tested the system with a battery only and everything seemed to be working fine - once I fixed a fault on one of the RKPs. My problem is now I've connected to the mains and apply the battery link to the AG6, the bell sounds and won't go off. Removing the battery link silences the bell but it won't then trigger with the bell test function from the panel. Everything inside the house works as it should and when the alarm is activated the internal siren sounds. I also can't get the strobe on the AG6 to work. I've seen posts on other sites talking about problems with the AG6 but not many solutions. Can anyone offer any help please?

Thanks

 

[oldtimer]

External Sounder
Now this causes electricians more problems than any other thing on a domestic alarm system so a bit of history first and that’s why I have given it its own post

They used to be and still do get called bellboxes so the thing is why are they so complicated well they are only hard if you try to apply electrician mentality to them so in electrics you switch the live but in electronics or alarms you switch the negative.

External sounder are sometimes called the SAB Self Actuating Bell or SCB Self Contained Bell they still use Bell even although they were phased out about 25 years ago so why does this matter well a bell was a big heavy load for the alarm panel with the event of microprocessor control panels they needed smaller batteries as they to a smaller load this applied to PIRs they drew 100mA now they are more like 10-20mA Bells would draw 1A the old electronic horn drew 25mA the newer sounders are piezo units.
Plus you had to build the box with separate components i.e. box ,sounder,strobe,sab module tamper switch but today it comes as a complete unit

So let’s break it down

Sounder box
Made from polycarbonate these are designed not to decay with UV light and they hold the equipment.

Sounder electronic piezo 100 and odd decibels

Strobe light
Regulations say that the sounder must go off after 20 minutes only problem was when the police arrived the sounder was off and this caused confusion so they put in a latched strobe light or visual alarm that stays on after the 20 minutes and aids the police to tell them which building is in alarm and also prepares the owner that their alarm has been activated.

SAB module
Self actuating well yes because it has an onboard battery that is constantly charged from the control panel but if you have a power cut and the battery runs down or a burglar tries to rip the CP or the external sounder off the wall then it will Self Actuate when the module loses its charging supply from the CP.
Hence when you get a power cut at 2 am and the battery is flat the owner phone you up to say the alarm is going off and he cannot silence it.
Also the tamper switch or spring is wired into this as well so if anyone tries to remove the front cover the system will go into full alarm.

Comfort Led’s
People think these are a recent thing when you walk past a box at night and the Led’s are twinkling at you plus this is a comfort to know your system is ok plus these boxes have diagnostic Led’s non them that change mode or colour to tell you what the problem is. I used to fit a steady LED on my boxes 25 years ago maybe I should have patented it LOL
Watchdog timer
Remember the sounder should only activate for 20 minutes if longer the owner can be charged under the Noise Pollution Act 1974 and breach of the peace but some people can set the timer in the control panel for 99 minutes so this does exactly what it says on the tin it will cut the sounder off after 20 minutes

Wiring to the external sounder
Yes I know there are some oddballs out there but we will stick to the standard unit as we are only looking at domestic.

Red 12vdc+ the is the hold off positive supply this charges the battery and powers the sounder,strobe.

Black 12vdc- this is the hold off negative supply this charges the battery.

Yellow 12vdc- this is a switched negative from the tamper switch or spring to tell the control panel that it is normal and this is monitored 24 hours a day.

Blue 12vdc- this is a switched negative from the control to the external sounder and this supplies the peizo sounder. This will switch the sounder off after the time period set in the CP expires Should not be more than 20 minutes I set it for 10 minutes

Green 12cdc- This is a switched negative from the CP that supplies the strobe light note this is latched once activated this will not switch off until the CP has been reset

White spare core REMEMBER this is my colour code I know others have different ideas

 

[oldtimer]

Just to add the sounder will not silence until you press down the tamper switch or put the sounder cover on with the fixing screw pushing the tamper switch down

 

[chilworth]

Just to add the sounder will not silence until you press down the tamper switch or put the sounder cover on with the fixing screw pushing the tamper switch down

Thanks for this. Yes, I should have added that it doesn't silence even when the tamper is engaged.

I am going to check the whole thing over again this weekend but I wondered if the tamper switch has shifted from the wall. It has a 2 way switch - 1 engaged by the wall and 2 by the cover screw.

I'm certain the wiring is correct - even though I used different colours to those you suggested.

Could a fuse have blown in the panel?

 

[oldtimer]

listen my name is not Mystic Meg re fuse what to do is remove the cover then put the screw in This lets you work on the unit without chasing to tail with the tamper switch

 

[chilworth]

Thanks for the advice. Thinking about it, I doubt it's the tamper as the panel would show a "tamper fault" but I'll do as you suggest.

 

[Submains]

What an excellent response oldtimer and concise explanation.

To simplify things a bit further using the same colours as "Mystic Meg"


G4 AG6
Panel Bell Colours

Stb - to ST- Green
T to -R Yellow
A to V- Black
D to V+ Red
B to SW Blue

 

[oldtimer]

Thanks for the advice. Thinking about it, I doubt it's the tamper as the panel would show a "tamper fault" but I'll do as you suggest.

Remember this panel has a common tamper so you need to put the panel lid back on

 

[tazz]

Well boken down, and explained Oldtimer

 

[oldtimer]

I was always told when explaining something target it at the level the person will understand

 

[Tafia]

I too am having problems with a Honeywell AG6 Sounder and Logic Six panel and all cables to the bell box are as described here.


This is the second panel showing the same problem, that is, the panel Error LED is lit. When the first panel Error LED showed, I called Honeywell Tech Support and the lady told me to remove the link from Zone 1 and bridge it to the S+ terminal. Power up and swipe fob and wait for the beep. She said this would clear the Error LED. It didn’t so I called her again. We repeated the link check as above and still the Error LED was lit. Tech Support told me the panel must be faulty. It was replaced by the wholesaler.

We have just installed the replacement panel and have the same problem with the Error LED being lit.

Also, the instructions for the bell box say it must be completely wired and then the battery link should be connected. When we do this, the sounder goes off even with the tamper switch on the bell box closed manually. There is no mention in the instructions for the bell box that this will happen. We connected the bell box to the panel as per connections posted in this forum.


There is no LED lit in the bell box when the control panel is powered up and the sounder does not operate when the tamper spring is released in the panel by removing the cover.

I have seen several references to these problems on line and assume that Honeywell must have the fix but I cannot find it.

 

[tazz]

The fob has not been programmed so will show error, if you read the whole of this post you will realise why the siren is sounding when you connect wiring up.

 

[Tafia]

Hi Tazz, Thanks for your response.

Not sure I follow. Two fobs come with the panel and are already programmed for the panel. The panel showed "Error" before any fob was placed near it.

As I mentioned, there is nothing in the bell box blurb which says the sounder will activate when the battery link is put in place though the panel instructions do warn that when power is first applied to the panel it will trigger an alarm which is then cancelled by application of the fob. It set off the panel speaker and the internal extension speaker but not the bell box sounder.

No LED shows at the bell box to show power is reaching it via the box anti-tamper switch as mentioned in the bell box instructions and there is no sound from the bell box. I haven't seen the post that refers to the bell box sounder going off when the battery link is applied.


Cheers,

T.

 

[Tafia]

The fob has not been programmed so will show error, if you read the whole of this post you will realise why the siren is sounding when you connect wiring up.

Tazz,

Re the bell box sounder triggering when the battery link is applied, are you referring to this post from Oldtimer?

"SAB module
Self actuating well yes because it has an onboard battery that is constantly charged from the control panel but if you have a power cut and the battery runs down or a burglar tries to rip the CP or the external sounder off the wall then it will Self Actuate when the module loses its charging supply from the CP.
Hence when you get a power cut at 2 am and the battery is flat the owner phone you up to say the alarm is going off and he cannot silence it.
Also the tamper switch or spring is wired into this as well so if anyone tries to remove the front cover the system will go into full alarm."

There is nothing in the instructions to say that if the panel is not powered up when the link is applied in the bell box then the sounder will think the mains has been lost and thus trigger an alarm, though now you point it out, it makes sense. Instructions say to fit the link before powering up the panel.

When the sounder triggered when the the battery link was applied I later tried to connect the battery link with the panel in walk-test mode thinking that would silence the sounder but it didn't. And we still have the "Error" and lack of LED on the bell box issue.

Walk test checks on PIR,s and main and exit loops are all good.

​

 

[tazz]

Ok lets sort out one problem at a time, if you have used the link between zone 1 and set+ as ADE has asked, then this wipes the memory, (NVM), so the panel will no longer recognise any fobs, and an Error led will show when presenting the fob. To reprogram a fob power down panel, (battery and mains), refit wire link zone 1 to set+ and power up by mains, hold the fob until panel bleeps, I think zone 1 will show. then remove wire link. With bell box check voltage accross A and D you should have 13v, if not check fuse 5

 

[Tafia]

Ok lets sort out one problem at a time, if you have used the link between zone 1 and set+ as ADE has asked, then this wipes the memory, (NVM), so the panel will no longer recognise any fobs, and an Error led will show when presenting the fob. To reprogram a fob power down panel, (battery and mains), refit wire link zone 1 to set+ and power up by mains, hold the fob until panel bleeps, I think zone 1 will show. then remove wire link. With bell box check voltage accross A and D you should have 13v, if not check fuse 5

Thanks for your patience Tazz,

I did reply to this last night but for some reason it has not appeared here. The panel I had the initial problem with was replaced by the wholesaler and this one has had no link from zone 1 to set +. The Error light was lit on the first panel as soon as I powered it up and this replacement has done the same thing. The fobs talk to the panel OK and the walk tests are all OK. I can put it into Day mode but the error light is still lit along with the Day LED.

I can't check the voltage to the bell box until Monday.


Thanks again.

T

 

[sedgy34]

They changed the connections from the book as I found out use your own colours

 

[Tafia]

Thanks for this Sedgy34.

We used this diagram as provided by the distributor; looks the same as yours except for the core colours used.

http://www.moretonalarms.com/pdf_downloads/Bellbox_Wiring_MAS.pdf

 

[sedgy34]

Make sure the switch on the back is on brick not the mortar
you could have a faulty siren but that's very rare

 

[oldtimer]

Listen I have seen this too many times with equipment being taken back because the person installing it does not understand how it works how do I know this cos I have been doing it for 29 years.

So best thing to do is get a beer then put a cover on the dining room table then make a temporary mains lead fit all links in the CP and learn how to work it now when you do that get an outside sounder with 2 metres of cable and wire it up then when you get this working its time to install both and you cannot go wrong