Additional consumer unit in domestic property breaker sizes?

[P-Courty]

I have a few questions about a couple of breaker sizes needed due to current draw and diversity.

In place already is as usual;
A main service fuse (100A)
25mm P&N tails to meter
25mm P&N tails from meter to CU
12 way CU split load

What has been done is a garage conversion to kitchen.
I was told they wanted a new CU for the kitchen area due to the 12 way being full and old (and strapped for cash).

I've been given a 6 way CU with 80A RCD, P&N 25mm tails & 16mm earth tail (customer supplied).

My plan was (correct me if I am wrong anywhere please) going to need additional items to complete.

1. Outgoing 25mm tails from meter to a 2 way CU with an MK 100A double pole main breaker (to protect service fuse).
2. From there 25mm tails to a 6 terminal henley block.
3. From the henley block 25mm tails to new 6 way CU and 25mm tails to existing CU.
4. 16mm earth to each CU from MEB.

Now this is were I could do with a little help on breakers.

The new board only has the RCD, do I need a main breaker in there? As in an 80A main and 63A 30mA RCD?
The circuits put it are a 32A kitchen ring final and a cooker circuit (for some reason in a 2.5mm t&e) I did question that and they said the kitchen fitters said the 2 single ovens are capable of being on 16A radials and the hob (not heard that before) so I may need to upgrade the cable size for that when I find out the kw of them (think it will be a must). This is what is confusing me on the RCD and main breaker sizes I should choose as i'm not completely sure what the draw is going to be.

Any help on all of this would be very much appreciated as they want this completed by the end of this week.

Thank you in advance for any help and advice given.

 

[Octopus]

Hold on. Who's designing this? You or kev the kitchen fitter?

 

[TJ Anderson]

Read your OSG mate for cooker diversity. You can put 15KW of cooking load on 32A circuit if that helps you. Not sure where you are going with a main breaker to protect service fuse......

 

[davesparks]

MK do not make 100A double pole circuit breakers.

In this country we don't fit main breakers in CU's

I shouldn't worry about the kitchen wiring too much, whoever has installed it will be connecting it and signing it off.
You obviously won't be doing this as only the person who installed it can do the sign off or LABC.

 

[Guest55]

the "main breaker" is just a double pole switch . it has no over current tripping ability.

i think thats where youre getting confused

 

[trev]

You're not an electrician are you?

 

[P-Courty]

the "main breaker" is just a double pole switch . it has no over current tripping ability.

i think thats where youre getting confused

Sorry I was thinking too much in my head then I ment the 100A breaker for the isolation of the 2 CU's.

 

[davesparks]

Sorry I was thinking too much in my head then I ment the 100A breaker for the isolation of the 2 CU's.

You've still not got it then!

You don't use a breaker in that situation

 

[Rockingit]

You're not an electrician are you?

No, he's a Electrical Trainee [emoji13] !!!

 

[P-Courty]

Hold on. Who's designing this? You or kev the kitchen fitter?

The circuits are already in and the client done what the kitchen fitter told him and put 2.5mm in (looks like i'll be changing that).

I did ask for the ratings off the client but all he would tell me is " the kitchen fitter said they can go on 16A 2.5mm radials" (he's one of those people who say your wrong because someone older than you has told them different)

So all I have now been asked to do is put this board on so for obvious reasons I want to make sure that the RCD and main breakers are correct and adequate for the protect of the circuits.

 

[trev]

Mate, if you're not an electrician then you need to get one.
If you are then you need to start acting like one.

 

[P-Courty]

You've still not got it then!

You don't use a breaker in that situation

So you would take the 25mm tails straight from the meter to a henley block then to the individual boards with no other isolation than only the main service fuse?

 

[davesparks]

The circuits are already in and the client done what the kitchen fitter told him and put 2.5mm in (looks like i'll be changing that).

I did ask for the ratings off the client but all he would tell me is " the kitchen fitter said they can go on 16A 2.5mm radials" (he's one of those people who say your wrong because someone older than you has told them different)

So all I have now been asked to do is put this board on so for obvious reasons I want to make sure that the RCD and main breakers are correct and adequate for the protect of the circuits.

If you did not install the circuits then you do not connect and test them, it's pretty simple.

In domestics the design, installation and IV is done by the same person who then signs it off. There is no scope for anyone else to sign off other than LABC


I'll say it again, we don't fit main breakers in CUs nor would it be necessary or appropriate.
You also need to ensure bonding and everything else is up to scratch before starting on any such works

 

[P-Courty]

Mate, if you're not an electrician then you need to get one.
If you are then you need to start acting like one.

Now that's a bit aggressive isn't it I am only trying to ask what I thought was a friendly community of electricians for advice I'm sure back when you started as an electrician you used to ask questions and hope people would be helpful to you too sorry if I've some how touched à nerve but I am only asking for help and guidance

 

[davesparks]

So you would take the 25mm tails straight from the meter to a henley block then to the individual boards with no other isolation than only the main service fuse?

No I wouldn't, the service fuse is not there as a point of isolation for the installation. Hence why it is sealed and we are not allowed to remove it!

I would install a main switch as required by the regulations and wouldn't use a Henley block if I could help it.
But then I wouldn't be doing a job which involved connecting up a DIYers bodgery

 

[P-Courty]

I have checked all equipotential bonding is in place and back to the MEB the circuits aren't going to be connected by me i'm just putting the board on from the main supply that is all i have been asked to do.

 

[davesparks]

Now that's a bit aggressive isn't it I am only trying to ask what I thought was a friendly community of electricians for advice I'm sure back when you started as an electrician you used to ask questions and hope people would be helpful to you too sorry if I've some how touched à nerve but I am only asking for help and guidance

Are you an electrician?

Trev and I and most people here qualified through an apprenticeship where we were taught all of this.

 

[P-Courty]

No I wouldn't, the service fuse is not there as a point of isolation for the installation. Hence why it is sealed and we are not allowed to remove it!

I would install a main switch as required by the regulations and wouldn't use a Henley block if I could help it.
But then I wouldn't be doing a job which involved connecting up a DIYers bodgery

So you would put a main switch between the meter and henley block? Thats what i was on about ...

 

[trev]

Mate, when I started out I was closely supervised by a properly qualified man who only ever let me do things when he was convinced I had the ability to do them.
I'm happy to help people but your questions show a lack of training to me. If I'm wrong then I'll apologise and help as much as I can.
It isn't my intention to be aggressive but I'll clarify what I said , if you are going to be the electrician on this job then YOU have to take charge of it. YOU are the one (allegedly) with the training and expertise to do it correctly, not Kev the kitchen fitter. If necessary you tell him to go forth and multiply and stick to what he knows because you have a greater degree of expertise in electrical matters than him.
That's what I'd do anyway

 

[davesparks]

So you would put a main switch between the meter and henley block? Thats what i was on about ...

No it wasn't, you were talking about a breaker not a switch, they are two different and distinct things.

 

[P-Courty]

Are you an electrician?

Trev and I and most people here qualified through an apprenticeship where we were taught all of this.

And I too went through an apprenticeship and done my 17th edition 3 years ago and unfortunatly fell into a situation of not being able to get work so have been a labourer for 3 years and need to get back up to scratch on what i was qualified to do which is why i thought i would ask friendly electricins with more experience for a bit of help and guidance to get me back in the right position to get myself up to scratch

 

[davesparks]

And I too went through an apprenticeship and done my 17th edition 3 years ago and unfortunatly fell into a situation of not being able to get work so have been a labourer for 3 years and need to get back up to scratch on what i was qualified to do which is why i thought i would ask friendly electricins with more experience for a bit of help and guidance to get me back in the right position to get myself up to scratch

Why did you do the 17th course if you served your time under the 17th? Your NVQ must have been under 17th regulations?

 

[P-Courty]

It was but I had to pay to do a 17th edition regulation course separate to the 3 years of college and the nvq level 3 portfolio. When I was going through my apprenticeship the regs went through the change from 16th to 17th as when i started college we used 16th ed. Books

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The scams require the 17th qualification, even if the electrician's main qualifications were obtained during the 17th.

 

[Leesparkykent]

if you have all the qualifications and a full apprenticeship under your belt as you claim this sort of job should be childs play for your self, its like learning to ride a bike you shouldn't be forgetting such simple stuff.

 

[davesparks]

It's a con!

And it appears that despite doing the 17th qualification people don't even know the difference between a breaker and a switch and when to use them

 

[P-Courty]

It's a con!

And it appears that despite doing the 17th qualification people don't even know the difference between a breaker and a switch and when to use them

How am I conning you, I am asking for help off you if I was regular Joe Blogs I would just go ahead and do it. I got all my certificates back in January 2012 I've been labouring since then (2 years 11 months) basically 3 years like I said. In that time I had a lot of family issues I went through lost everything and hit depression and am now in financial difficulty so sorry if this the words breaker and switch got mixed up in my head during all of this.

I've come here to ask you guys for help because surely you've needed that in the past. And if this is childs play then why are you not helping me and just tearing me back down to were I used to be I thought coming to you guys could help me out.

It looks like you have never been living on every penny you get and own your own houses and have vans well to me a penny is a lot and as for a car well thats a luxury to me and my bloody pedal bike. I thought you guys could help me out but guess I was wrong. I have my A's back from school and distictions from college I worked my arse off to be told I was over qualified for certain jobs so can't even work on a till at my local Asda because of that so sorry for asking for help!

 

[uksparks]

I have checked all equipotential bonding is in place and back to the MEB the circuits aren't going to be connected by me i'm just putting the board on from the main supply that is all i have been asked to do.

It's MET not MEB

 

[P-Courty]

Okay sorry about the rant just been through some bad things, anyway the client in question was my uncle and was just trying to help him out a little but I'll do what you lot said and tell him to phone a local electrician with more knowledge than me to do it as I guess I'm just to rusty for this now. Apologies if I offended any of you in anyway.

 

[uksparks]

No it wasn't, you were talking about a breaker not a switch, they are two different and distinct things.

Do you think he means would it be wise to put a DP isolator in for future convenience as a main point of isolation? Oh hang on, how is he going to do that without pulling the main fuse?...

 

[uksparks]

I was over qualified for certain jobs so can't even work on a till at my local Asda because of that so sorry for asking for help!

I went for a job in Sanisburys on the tills once, just to bring in a bit of extra cash, going back a few years now, I was trying to save money for various things, was single and thought it would help, anyway, I turned up in a nice suit for a job interview, walked through sainsburys, went out the back where the staff are, and they were basically laughing at me. I showed the bloke my CV and what I did for a job and he said sorry but you don't need the money nor the job, you are far too qualified to be sitting at a till and we would rather give it to someone who needs it.

 

[Octopus]

I went for a job in Sanisburys on the tills once, just to bring in a bit of extra cash, going back a few years now, I was trying to save money for various things, was single and thought it would help, anyway, I turned up in a nice suit for a job interview, walked through sainsburys, went out the back where the staff are, and they were basically laughing at me. I showed the bloke my CV and what I did for a job and he said sorry but you don't need the money nor the job, you are far too qualified to be sitting at a till and we would rather give it to someone who needs it.

A few years back I went to Sainsburys dressed in my decorating outfit - and got accosted going into Sainsburys and asked if I wanted a job!

 

[uksparks]

I got all my certificates back in January 2012 I've been labouring since then (2 years 11 months) basically 3 years like I said.

Sorry I can't resist saying this, you got them in January 2012, so thats 31 days, a shade over 4 weeks. Oh come on you were wanting me to say that.

I guess I'm just to rusty for this now.

You cannot possibly be 'rusty', you have only been doing this since January 2012, there's no room for being rusty. Without trying to sound rude, you are using incorrect terminology and seem like you haven't got a clue.

Do you mind me asking, which scheme / body are you registered with? NICEIC? NAPIT?

 

[uksparks]

Anyway, ive got a job to do today, oh and don't eat bombay mix when you have a filling thats had a root canal too, I had some last night and broke the filling off, needs a sodding crown now!!

 

[telectrix]

harsh comments maybe, but this job is beyond your experience. i strongly suggest you enlist the aid of someone with more experience to quote with you and work with you , or else you;ll find yourself catching a cold, or worse.

 

[Pete999]

Mate, if you're not an electrician then you need to get one.
If you are then you need to start acting like one.

Got to agree with Trev on this, also, if you are a trainee, I'm asking because your profile says nowt, should you be doing this work?

 

[ImpededLoop]

It sounds like you have the qualifications, but not enough experience. The best thing to do would be to try and find a job working for somebody else so you get chance to get back up to speed.

 

[P-Courty]

I went to college in 2007 finished in 2011 and took my 17th in january 2012 but i'm not going to do this as you lot have said it would be out of my league and i have phoned my uncle this morning and told him to get someone else in to do it, he was just trying to help me get a bit of money over christmas and obviously him save money but as the saying goes better to be safe than sorry so i am going to look for a different career path so as not to cause any issues for anyone but thank you all for the truthful comments.

 

[ImpededLoop]

I went to college in 2007 finished in 2011 and took my 17th in january 2012 but i'm not going to do this as you lot have said it would be out of my league and i have phoned my uncle this morning and told him to get someone else in to do it, he was just trying to help me get a bit of money over christmas and obviously him save money but as the saying goes better to be safe than sorry so i am going to look for a different career path so as not to cause any issues for anyone but rhank you all for the truthful comments.

As I said in my previous post, find some work with another electrician. If you have the qualifications, it seems a shame to waste all that hard work.

 

[BES]

I went to college in 2007 finished in 2011 and took my 17th in january 2012 but i'm not going to do this as you lot have said it would be out of my league and i have phoned my uncle this morning and told him to get someone else in to do it, he was just trying to help me get a bit of money over christmas and obviously him save money but as the saying goes better to be safe than sorry so i am going to look for a different career path so as not to cause any issues for anyone but thank you all for the truthful comments.

Poor bloke. Be on window ledge by lunchtime

 

[Leesparkykent]

With those qualifications, I'm sure you would be given the opportunity as a electricians mate over many that would apply for the same job. This would be the best thing to do and gain some experience. All the best.

 

[telectrix]

as above. don't give up on the career. get someone to work with you on the job you' posted and gain experience working as a mate. going rate is about £11/hour, so better than stacking shelves in tesco's.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Just to add, it's not that people on here don't want to help you it's just people don't want to go and give you the information that gives you the confidence to go ahead and do a job that by the sounds of it you do not have the ability to do (and May or may not in turn cause yourself or somebody else an injury). I hope things work out for yourself and good luck getting a mates job and gaining the experience to match your qualifications.

 

[P-Courty]

Around were I live I can't even get a job for companys who ask for apprentices it's been 3 years and i've got nothing out of it an my experience is obviously lacking a lot so it must just not be my place.

 

[P-Courty]

Just to add, it's not that people on here don't want to help you it's just people don't want to go and give you the information that gives you the confidence to go ahead and do a job that by the sounds of it you do not have the ability to do (and May or may not in turn cause yourself or somebody else an injury). I hope things work out for yourself and good luck getting a mates job and gaining the experience to match your qualifications.

I understand what you are saying and thank you

 

[davesparks]

How am I conning you, I am asking for help off you if I was regular Joe Blogs I would just go ahead and do it. I got all my certificates back in January 2012 I've been labouring since then (2 years 11 months) basically 3 years like I said. In that time I had a lot of family issues I went through lost everything and hit depression and am now in financial difficulty so sorry if this the words breaker and switch got mixed up in my head during all of this.

I've come here to ask you guys for help because surely you've needed that in the past. And if this is childs play then why are you not helping me and just tearing me back down to were I used to be I thought coming to you guys could help me out.

It looks like you have never been living on every penny you get and own your own houses and have vans well to me a penny is a lot and as for a car well thats a luxury to me and my bloody pedal bike. I thought you guys could help me out but guess I was wrong. I have my A's back from school and distictions from college I worked my arse off to be told I was over qualified for certain jobs so can't even work on a till at my local Asda because of that so sorry for asking for help!

The con comment was not directed at you, it was with regards the NIC and other scams requiring someone like you who trained under the 17th to do the 17th course in addition.


I've been there and done that!
This time last year I was down to only eating every other day, so yes I have been in the situation of living off of every penny I can get.
I am still stuck living with my parents as I cannot afford a place of my own.
And yes I have been diagnosed with depression.

If you have genuinely worked your arse off and got learned the trade then how come you need to ask such basic questions?

Electricity can and will kill people or burn down their houses if you make the most simple of mistakes.