Backstabbing: electrician says all outlets in home should be replaced?

[James]

a couple of points I would like to add.

not sure of pricing in the states but over here in blighty you could get a house rewired top to bottom for the equivalent of 9k usd.

The backstabbing method you have shown is often in the uk to be considered a better way of connecting cables as it keeps a constant spring force on the conductor, in fact if a joint is going to be inaccessible after completion it is one of the few ways we are allowed to do it.

the scorch marks around the outlet are most likely caused by a poor connection between plug and socket.

this could be because,
1 the plug is worn and the pins are getting a little small
2 the socket is worn or damaged and the spring tension that grips the plug has become week.

it could be that the poor connection is not permanent but caused by improper usage.
1 not fully inserting the plug into the outlett
2 pulling the plug out whilst device is still turned on
3 inserting the plug whilst the device is turned on
4 particularly with items like vacuum cleaners, pulling the plug sideways or partialy out of the outlet when accidently pulling on the cable (flex)

The cleaner has reported that the outlet sparked when they inserted the plug for the vacuum, this I suspect is due to them plugging it in whilst the devices power switch is "on"
when you do this, not only do you have the highest amount of power being drawn from the device (starting a motor uses up to 5 times as much power as normal running for a short duration) but also you have a poor connection because the plug is not fully inserted.

I suspect that neither the outlets or the cleaner were faulty to begin with but have been prematurely worn by improper use.
if you need any documentation to back this up, read the owners manual for the vacuum cleaner, bet you it states to plug it in then switch it on, not switch it on then plug it in!!

 

[Julie.]

Arcing like that can occur if you disconnect an inductive load (such as a motor) by just pulling the plug out whilst it is still running.

The contact points on US style socket outlets are very close to the surface, so the arc can progress outside the outlet before it is extinguished, UK type outlets have the live parts further back so the arcing is more contained.

If this is the case here, changing the outlets will not solve the problem, merely switching off the vacuum cleaner by the proper switch before unplugging will do so. (as will ensuring it is off before plugging in!)

I think the push-in contacts are a valid method with some US outlets, and assuming that's the case here, I think just replacing like for like where there had been surface arcing is all that needs to be done.

The quote looks like a rip-off to me.

 

[kronius]

Arcing like that can occur if you disconnect an inductive load (such as a motor) by just pulling the plug out whilst it is still running.

It didn't even occur to me that is what happened because it's so careless, but I'll bet that's exactly what the maids did! I bet the vacuum tripped the circuit breaker on the first outlet, then they plugged the vacuum into the other two outlets without switching the vacuum off first, and those were the outlets where the scarring was more severe. The outlet where the circuit breaker tripped had very little scarring.

The quote looks like a rip-off to me.

Indeed. I trusted them because they came so highly recommended. Luckily, I didn't give them any money!

 

[Julie.]

It didn't even occur to me that is what happened because it's so careless, but I'll bet that's exactly what the maids did! I bet the vacuum tripped the circuit breaker on the first outlet, then they plugged the vacuum into the other two outlets without switching the vacuum off first, and those were the outlets where the scarring was more severe. The outlet where the circuit breaker tripped had very little scarring.



Indeed. I trusted them because they came so highly recommended. Luckily, I didn't give them any money!

I wouldn't imagine that you will get the truth from the cleaners, they are likely to cover themselves with a better sounding explanation than what actually happened.

 

[littlespark]

For $9k, one of us could jump on a plane, fly over, do the work and come home..... if it wasn’t for the pandemic.

Agreeing with what’s being said now. If these backstabbed connections were the problem, all the burn marks would be inside the outlet, at the connections.
And as others have said, the start up current is much more than the running current.... so someone’s plugged in with the vacuum turned on.
(Had the same with a friend who used to unplug her iron when it was still on. You could see the spark through the white plastic)

 

[davesparks]

The test they are suggesting doesn't appear to make logical sense for the type of fault.

If 'backstabbing' was so dangerous then manufacturers would be banned from making sockets with this connection metjod as an option.

Replacing circuit breakers and undamaged sockets is a waste of time, materials and money.

It appears they want to charge a total of $13k to repair 3 damaged sockets.

To my mind, and UK way of thinking, all of this adds up to a cowboy outfit of con-artists who should be avoided at all costs.

My suggestion would be to get another local electrician to give their opinion on the situation.

My understanding is that the electrical work will have been checked for code compliance by an inspector as part of the build process, so something so fundamentally wrong that would require all outlets to be replaced would have been noticed by them.

 

[Mark Wright]

I did a search on Backstabbing and seems strange that the American Electrical regulatory body don't comment on the subject as the manufacturers include tw o methods of termination yet some people call it dangerous, I think it can only be dangerous if not terminated properly I.e manufacturers instructions are not followed - basically you could go around fitting new socks with whatever termination method you like in probably half a day.

Wouldn't mind one of the American sockets to have a look at, if anyone wants to send me one.

 

[davesparks]

When Wago's first came to the UK many electricians were highly suspicious of them, called them dodgy, dangerous, not as good as Choc blocks etc.
But now we are moving towards viewing the Choc block as the inferior option and the wago is preferred.

I suspect much the same is happening here, a new option has come along and instead of taking an unbiased view people are showing their fear of change or new technology by labelling it dangerous and wrong.

 

[Mark Wright]

One of the Videos I saw for termination of such sockets, the socket even included a a gauge for how much exposed copper to use.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-64HcE-cwjU


Unusual name though BackStabbing

 

[pc1966]

Unusual name though BackStabbing

They were going to call it Et tu Brutus? but decided it was a bit too posh sounding.