BAD wiring- what can the customer do?

[Short Circuit]

I think just the one example should be enough to lead to the suspension of his membership! Or is it that they would rather get his annual fee, than protect the unwary public?

Like Golden Boy says, i think that sums it up too - there is no way they would suspend someones membership! They just want the money, after all they are a business at the end of the day, although their reputation will go down hill with work like this!

 

[Short Circuit]

The standard of work is awful, the chances of any action against the previous installer(s) are probably non existent.

On another note, can anyone understand why someone would buy a house for say £200,000 and not have the services checked by the relevant trades?

It just amazes me, people buy a second hand car for say £5000 and get a mechanic to check it over! Weird!

IQ, i agree with what you say about the survey. The house was 300k and the lady opted for the middle of the three surveys possible! She is now in dispute over the survey too, not just over the electrical system either! The surveyor was supposed to have spent 3 hrs at the house and there is no way he has! Prior to seeing the so called certificate, i was starting to think those HIPS pack were a good thing! Obviously not really, as the same person would've signed the job off anyway!

 

[IQ Electrical]

We're involved in a similar case now, a 'surveyor' has created his own inspection sheet with 'sockets', 'lights', 'fuseboard', 'RCD', he has then ticked a box saying 'OK' for each of those 4 categories.

After moving in, the new owners began to have doubts and asked us to carry out a PIR.
Besides incomplete rings and borrowed neutrals, I'll post a picture of the incoming RCD device when I get to a pc, it's worth seeing!

The new owners are now talking about a claim against the 'surveyor' for the cost of the PIR and remedials.

 

[Short Circuit]

The surveys should include at least a PIR! Probably like the surveyor who has looked at the property you refer to, the one here will be some type of civil engineer who really has no idea re the electrics (or much else judging by the state of this house!) He has missed woodworm and damp too. I suspect my customer will get her survey money back, but very much doubt that they will give her any more, but worth a go, Cheers
Looking forward to seeing the photos!

 

[malcolmsanford]

The major problem with this is as we all know the certificate basically covers you as far as when you get in the van and drive away. There is no way anything can happen to the original sparks that did the mare because his argument will be well my cert was sept 09 and your work is Jan 11, so you can't prove negligence.

As everyone says the best you can hope for is to be honest and up front with your customer. Advise her in writing what the problems are and even recommend that if she is not happy with your survey on the installation you have no objections to her calling in another contractor to also do a PIR, but of course at her own expense.

I think it won't go that far as it seems she trusts you and as the good fortune to have found someone honest and concerend about the situation.

 

[BLBelfast]

These surveys normally consist of the surveyor looking to make sure faceplates are present. Never mind the actual wiring.

 

[SMB]

I just find it rather amazing that someone is in the position to purchase a 300K home and hasn't got the sence to call trades people in to check out the property.

My word, nothing stranger than folk.

 

[leolec]

I'm alittle out of depth here but when I registered with NAPIT they made absolutely certain I carry indemnity insurance - surely the remedial work would be covered by this insurance on grounds on bad design if nothing else

 

[Short Circuit]

i can agree that the wiring 'could' have been altered between the cert being issued, and the time that i went - however unlikely, but the earthing arrangement hasnt been altered from TNC-S to TT, as recorded by the person completing the certficate - would you put that down to negligence or incompetence? I dont agree with TonyS 'so a mistake or two was made on the test sheet' - going off that, everyone might as well make it up!

What do you guys think about the indemnity insurance point leo has made - would that cover it? Or is that more for accidents occuring on a site?

 

[telectrix]

i think idemnity insurance is more to do with giving bad advice or poor design, anyway, to make any sort of claim, you would have to find out who installed it in the first place. maybe there is a napit reg. no. on the cert.

 

[Short Circuit]

i think idemnity insurance is more to do with giving bad advice or poor design, anyway, to make any sort of claim, you would have to find out who installed it in the first place. maybe there is a napit reg. no. on the cert.

Thanks for that re the insurance, it couldnt be as easy as going to his insurance! There is a name, and company name and address on the cert so no problems tracing him

 

[SMB]

Short circuit.

I really hope you do something about this.

You have the details of this person. Report them.

 

[sean_ork]

Thanks for that re the insurance, it couldnt be as easy as going to his insurance! There is a name, and company name and address on the cert so no problems tracing him

sadly you'll get nowhere following him down the insurance route - that's just for accidents and proven loss after poor/bad/wrong advice , however his insurance company would be interested to know that his work is an accident waiting to happen - talk to NAPIT, if only just to let us know what they have to say

but i suppose if your house insurance company knew you have dodgy wiring they might also ponder upping your premiums as well

 

[leolec]

I think I should be keeping my trap shut as I'm really not keen on the idea of increasing our insurance premiums because of bad workmanship but, this is from an insurance website. Thing is, it does look like a legal battle given the reassurance that it covers legal fees - is that reassurance?

Electricians Insurance | Electrical Contractors Insurance

Do I need Electricians & Electrical Contractors Professional Indemnity Insurance?

Professional Indemnity Insurance for Electricians or Electrical Contractors covers your business against claims by customers who have suffered financial loss as a result of using your services. Your Electrician's or Electrical Contractor's professional indemnity insurance would cover compensation claims and legal fees.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Below is a picture our guy took from the PIR I mentioned earlier, the 'surveyor' had ticked a box for RCD protection among other things:

The enclosure was unfixed on a shelf below the CU exactly as in the picture.

Our guy removed the lid, lifted the enclosure to look inside and the red line conductor fell straight out of the terminal!

I wonder why lights were flickering when the shower was running!!!!

The PIR has 39 defects comprising of: 20 X code 2, 2 X code 1 and 18 X code 4 not bad for 8 circuits!

There were class 1 light fittings with the cpc's in connector blocks, pushed into the ceiling, no main protective bond to the water service, smashed accessories, and on and on!

The main point is that the 'surveyor' had ticked 'OK' for 4 categories that were far from OK!

If it goes to court and we get the expert witness role, I'll do a court diary thread!

 

[tony mc]

Thanks IQ

You say surveyor, I take it that it was not a PIR and documents issued for the survey (or was it?).

Out of interest what was the other code 1

 

[nickblake]

IQ thats bad , but how many times have we heard about these surveys , how many times do we come across dodgy wiring like this , 2009 it was done still its no excuse , biggest problem is how much work was done buy the guys that did the work and what was it like before they started we dont know the limit of the work i know id have insited it was sorted no excuse for the sockets weve all used crimps to extend cables in sockets at some time but not like that the first thing i would do is a full PIR to highlight any other defects it could be sorted or may need rewing and untill the full extent of the installation is inspected i couldnt comment

 

[tonys]

IQ

On what grounds might it go to court? No one as been hurt, but the potential was there?

Obvious thing to me is, money as been taken for work which was not fit for purpose?

 

[IQ Electrical]

@tony mc This was a 'surveyors' report and he had made up a tick box sheet to incorporate the electrical installation into his 'survey'
One of the ticks was for 'RCD protection' the 'RCD' was in fact used as an expensive Henley block, as you can see in the picture!


@nickblake Apart from the obvious danger that existed on this installation, I'm angry that these idiots are taking inspection work away from businesses such as ours by offering clients an 'umbrella' survey that isn't worth the paper it's fabricated on.

Joe Public doesn't appreciate the difference between the rubbish produced above and a full Periodic Inspection until these situations arise!

 

[IQ Electrical]

IQ

On what grounds might it go to court? No one as been hurt, but the potential was there?

Obvious thing to me is, money as been taken for work which was not fit for purpose?

Hi Tony, it can go to court if the client decides to sue to recover financial loss caused by negligent error or negligent omission.

The survey stated that the electrical installation was 'safe and in good order' !