Borrowed neutral question.

[schoe]

Just out of interest if i was to fit a new dual rcd split board and a came across a borrowed netural on a lighting circuit how could i resolve it?


Thanks Chris

 

[oxocube]

The correct solution is to install a new neutral to the the correct lighting circuit.

The other incorrect option is to combine the circuits on one breaker. Problem being, breaker trips and no lighting any where in house.

Also professional sparks carry out a test and inspection before doing the cu change.

 

[Rappid]

I always carry out a insulation resistance and continunity across the lighting neutrals before any consumer unit change.

 

[ezzzekiel]

The other incorrect option is to combine the circuits on one breaker.

not an incorrect option its a accepted method , just the lazy option.

 

[miner69er]

it is not a lazy option, don't know where you guys live but try explaining to my customers you need to add another neutral to the circuit which involves more money and maybe decorating afterwards depending on routing of cables. most customers don't want to spend the money we ask to change a consumer unit.....(they think it can all be done for £20-00)

 

[TPES]

Even when test are performed before a CU change it makes no difference anyway, the CU is getting changed so you still have the same problems.

 

[Hawk81]

it is not a lazy option, don't know where you guys live but try explaining to my customers you need to add another neutral to the circuit which involves more money and maybe decorating afterwards depending on routing of cables. most customers don't want to spend the money we ask to change a consumer unit.....(they think it can all be done for £20-00)

I don't know where you live either but leaving a borrowed neutral is lazy and dangerous. In my book it should always be rectified.

 

[Rappid]

Even when test are performed before a CU change it makes no difference anyway, the CU is getting changed so you still have the same problems.

You're right, it makes no difference. At least you can inform the customer the problems and ask them if they want you to rectify it, you can also set out your CU to take in account of the borrowed neutral.

 

[Ponty Massive]

I don't know where you live either but leaving a borrowed neutral is lazy and dangerous. In my book it should always be rectified.

Can't agree with that. In what way is it dangerous? I did a CU change a few days back. Explained to the customer about the borrowed neutral and how it would effect them. They didn't want the extra work and were happy to put both lighting circuits on one mcb. Made a note on the cert as to why I had done it!!!!!

I'm sure that's a lot safer than the old 3036 board they had before with a borrowed neutral over two fuses!!

 

[Hawk81]

I can not understand for the life of me anyone trying to justify a borrowed nuetral. Ok so it is slighty safer the 2 circuits being on one mcb but it is still far from safe and is not meeting with the regs as to minimise disruption if there is a fault. No excuse for leaving any circuit with a borrowed neutral is valid to me.

 

[oxocube]

In what way is it dangerous?

I can't believe an electrician said that.

 

[Hawk81]

I can't believe an electrician said that.

Exactly what I was thinking!

 

[Knobhead]

I can't believe an electrician said that.

The customer has the final say.
Or are you one of those money grubbing supposed electricians that will spout regulations ad-nauseam until you browbeat the customer in to submission.
What Ponty said was perfectly valid.

 

[Rappid]

The customer has the final say.
Or are you one of those supposed electricians that will spout regulations ad-nauseam until you browbeat the customer in to submission.
What Ponty said was perfectly valid.

I agree. I usually get called in once the the decorating has been done and the new carpet layed, the customer won't have the ceilings or walls ripped apart again.

 

[oxocube]

The customer has the final say.
Or are you one of those supposed electricians that will spout regulations ad-nauseam until you browbeat the customer in to submission.
What Ponty said was perfectly valid.

So you agree with him that borrowed neutrals are not dangerous. lol.

To isolate a borrowed neutral you need to pull two fuses, is that safe?
In the event of a circuit fault the cpd has been doubled in size, is that safe?
And putting all the lights on one circuit does not comply with the regs, re inconvenience, design and separation of circuits.

And you cannot abrogate your professional responsibiliy by getting a customer to agree to something when they are not qualified to make such a judgement.

Customers will ask for all kinds of things that do not comply with the regs, either do the the job properly or don't do it all

 

[Ponty Massive]

If the two circuits are put into one, the neutral is no longer "borrowed". I agree it may not conform to 17th regs with the inconvenience of two lighting circuits being placed on one circuit, however this is not a complete rewire, its a CU change! What's to say in this situation there wasn't a third lighting circuit which could have been placed on a different rcd?

Anyway, are you telling me if your customer didn't want to have their house pulled apart or go to the expense of putting new wiring in, you would not change the CU for them?

 

[Ponty Massive]

I can't believe an electrician said that.

Get back on your 3 week DI course son !!!

 

[Knobhead]

Did Ponty or I mention two supply points? One MCB for the two circuits.

Get your facts straight before pontificating on the skills of others. Walk away if you can’t uphold your argument!

 

[oxocube]

Get back on your 3 week DI course son !!!

Losing the argument so you get abusive.lol

"son" pathetic or what lol

 

[oxocube]

Did Ponty or I mention two supply points? One MCB for the two circuits.

Get your facts straight before pontificating on the skills of others. Walk away if you can’t uphold your argument!

I've explained my argument and you have no valid response.

What you both said is "borrowed neutrals are not dangerous"and that is plain nonsense.