Ceiling Wiring Confusion (4 wires)

[Rpa07]

. . . . . and then medical help!
The bang test gets a bit old with a 3036 board - rewiring a fuse just to try again - we're spoilt with these new fangled MCBs you know!

 

[telectrix]

nowt wrong with a 3036 fuse that a 2" nail won't cure.

 

[Rpa07]

@telectrix - back in your basket, bad boy!
How are the pups, have you been keeping us informed on the maternity thread?

 

[telectrix]

@telectrix - back in your basket, bad boy!
How are the pups, have you been keeping us informed on the maternity thread?

we lost 2. 3 remaining pups doing well.

 

[Rpa07]

Sorry to hear that of the two but great that other 3 have made it - a miracle in its own right. Smell them for me! I love puppy smell.

 

[Andy-1960]

Join the red to the brown using a connector block.
Insert the two black wires into the L and N.
See what happens.

Yes that may work, but it does not resolve the earthing issue, not only is there no Earth connected in the ceiling but it is very likely that the switch is not earthed either!

Get an electrician

 

[EMMEC]

This was one attempt by the way...but this causes the mains to trip too

View attachment 36047

RED with Brown at separate connector Black from red to N and Black from Brown to L

this is the last point in circuit and new 3core is running from switch )

 

[westward10]

RED with Brown at separate connector Black from red to N and Black from Brown to L

this is the last point in circuit and new 3core is running from switch )

This may well be the case but what about verifying continuity/connection of the cpcs.

 

[westward10]

It is also impossible to connect those cables at that fitting in a compliant manner.

 

[EMMEC]

This may well be the case but what about verifying continuity/connection of the cpcs.

You have right about cpc , they have to be connected

 

[DivingDave]

My advice would be to forget about trying to connect them up different ways in the hope that it works, and just call out an electrician.

You will likely find they'll charge more than if you had of just called an electrician to begin I know I would charge more.

 

[dmxtothemax]

what exactly is the code for earthing in the UK ?
Are there lots of old instalations not earthed ?
What happens there ?

 

[Midwest]

Lighting circuits without cpc were the fashion in the UK prior to 1966 (13th Edition). So yes there are a lot still around. Obviously, the best fix, would be to rewire that particular circuit, but some customers either can't or won't afford this.

Another fix would be to run an earth from another circuit, but then you run the risk of that being inadvertently disconnected over time, or as I found recently an earth wire was used, bonded to a copper pipe.

There is another fix (following a risk assessment), that involves using only Class II luminaires and plastic light switches, then placing a pretty label on the consumer unit, indicating that particular circuit(s) does not have provision for earthing metal equipment. (Electrical Safety First - Best Practise Guide 1).

 

[driverman]

Is there more than one light in the room? If so, could be a loop. Has the problem be solved?

 

[westward10]

Not forgetting the pretty notice has absolutely no backbone in should you be faced with prosecution

Lighting circuits without cpc were the fashion in the UK prior to 1966 (13th Edition). So yes there are a lot still around. Obviously, the best fix, would be to rewire that particular circuit, but some customers either can't or won't afford this.

Another fix would be to run an earth from another circuit, but then you run the risk of that being inadvertently disconnected over time, or as I found recently an earth wire was used, bonded to a copper pipe.

There is another fix (following a risk assessment), that involves using only Class II luminaires and plastic light switches, then placing a pretty label on the consumer unit, indicating that particular circuit(s) does not have provision for earthing metal equipment. (Electrical Safety First - Best Practise Guide 1).

Is this sticker recognised by BS7671

 

[Midwest]

Not forgetting the pretty notice has absolutely no backbone in should you be faced with prosecution

Is this sticker recognised by BS7671

Its black font on a yellow background

 

[Leesparkykent]

hmmm....keeping an eye on this thread. I cant see why some people are so insistent on dishing out advice other than get an electrician in! Telling the OP to try connecting it this or that way is not on. And to make matters worse there is no CPC.

 

[telectrix]

think there is a cpc, lee. cpc standing for "cut protective conductor".

 

[westward10]

Most are advising this Lee as the wiring is a bit odd.

 

[westward10]

Lighting circuits without cpc were the fashion in the UK prior to 1966 (13th Edition). So yes there are a lot still around. Obviously, the best fix, would be to rewire that particular circuit, but some customers either can't or won't afford this.

Another fix would be to run an earth from another circuit, but then you run the risk of that being inadvertently disconnected over time, or as I found recently an earth wire was used, bonded to a copper pipe.

There is another fix (following a risk assessment), that involves using only Class II luminaires and plastic light switches, then placing a pretty label on the consumer unit, indicating that particular circuit(s) does not have provision for earthing metal equipment. (Electrical Safety First - Best Practise Guide 1).

What parameters would you base the risk assessment on and when assessment indicates a risk what measures would you put in place.