Discuss EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news" in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net
They can't all be lying Murdoch.
Remain says there will be job losses, Brexiters say there will not.
Remain says the economy will suffer, Brexiters say it will not
Remain says there will be an impact on security, Brexiters say there will be no impact
Brexiters say we send £350m a week to the EU, remain say we do not
And on and on.
On most points they are arguing polar opposites.
That's right MW. You have to find out as much as you can yourself and make a judgement on that.
Enjoy.
Well bl***dy said Murdoch! As I have said before the lot of them are a shower of ---- with a very few exceptions (Margaret Hodge for example). They have all run this country down over decades now. When we do leave I can't wait to see both Cameron and Corbyn resign, and good riddance to the pair of them. On the other topic, how can people say we could not control our own borders?? We are doing it now, non-EU immigration has been reduced massively over the last couple of years, we can't even get curry chef's these days!As I stated, the decisions WOULD be ours to take and make.
As for a Cameron replacement - I can see the Conservatives with a "jeremy corbyn" at the wheel.
The UK doesn't have ANY true leaders at the moment - they are pretty much ALL career politicians without back bones.
Well bl***dy said Murdoch! As I have said before the lot of them are a shower of ---- with a very few exceptions (Margaret Hodge for example). They have all run this country down over decades now. When we do leave I can't wait to see both Cameron and Corbyn resign, and good riddance to the pair of them. On the other topic, how can people say we could not control our own borders?? We are doing it now, non-EU immigration has been reduced massively over the last couple of years, we can't even get curry chef's these days!
I don't agree with it either. I think one big point that is never discussed in all this is the fact that we should NOT be using the resources of ANY other countries to bolster up our country. We should be helping them to better their own countries so they do not want to come in the first place (we do financially anyway). An awful lot of these "refugees" are just young men who have looked on their phones at the UK and thought "right sod this place I want to go and live in the UK its great there". It is morally wrong that we are talking of taking doctors, nurses and so on from other countries, they are needed there to help those countries get better. We should have been training our own people, but as usual successive governments have buggered it up and now we are in a mess. I was just making the point that we CAN control our borders, but only if we are OUT regarding EU immigrants.Not sure I agree with that.
Immigration from the EU or the rest of the World allows UK plc to "avoid" the costs of training staff..........
I'm stay in. Though I have positives and negatives ( good eh!!) on both sides of argument.
I think if we we are out , the immigration could be worse. Britain just don't turn boats away from their border. Just now our border is in France, they would gladly send boats our way .
but I know nothing ..:confused5:
You may be right, but history tells us, not to trust the French with their promises does it not?Nothing wrong with been flumaxed by it all but read my post 488 about the French border deal
If you want to get rid of the Tories, then vote accordingly in 2020 :biggrin5:Wonderwall strip away all the economic, immigration debate and get down to the crux of the matter, as I have said in another post its basically do you want to live in a democratic society or under a dictatorship, it really is that simple, your choice.
The thing is Pete, on this VERY subject, we all know he's lying as one of the key aims of the EU is freedom of movement and on this basis the Brussels "mob" will not change this - so such a pledge or promised is an unachievable goal.
For me the entire EU strategy now is is about not allowing the Euro to fail - at ANY cost. This means that until the Germans and French agree to treaty change so that ALL the Euro zone countries have political AND fiscal union the mess will only get worse.
If you want to get rid of the Tories, then vote accordingly in 2020 :biggrin5:
You may be right, but history tells us, not to trust the French with their promises does it not?
If getting out is solely on immigration I think we should stay.
Thats my point. The financial and political side is over my , and most others I think , head
Thats a new one! Stopping in to reduce immigration????You may be right, but history tells us, not to trust the French with their promises does it not?
If getting out is solely on immigration I think we should stay.
Thats my point. The financial and political side is over my , and most others I think , head
And replace them with what UKIP, SNP, The Green party or how about The monster raving loony's
It's not as a daft as you think.Thats a new one! Stopping in to reduce immigration????
It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.
I nearly replied along the lines of what country are you living in, but iv'e just noticed. What a load of bl**dy rubbish do you get the daily mail up there??It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.
Sod off it was him that started all this cr*p!if only we could bring churchill back to life.........
It's not as a daft as you think.
If we had nothing to do with Europe, the officials could easily turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders.
Politicians don't want to admit it, but Britain needs immigrants. We have an ageing and dwindling population and if today's workforce are to get a pension we need young blood that's prepared to have families and work. They are facts, nobody likes to admit them , but it's sadly true.
As usual, politicians will tell us everything but the truth.
Boris wants us to leave, that should surely set alarm bells ringing for everyone.
No one says immigration is a bad thing and both sides agree on that, both sides also agree that we currently have too much immigration and you can only reduce it by controlling it, the issue is how to control it, the EU has a fundamental rule of free movement and will not budge on it so as they control our borders to EU citizens then the only plausible way of controlling our borders again is to leave the EU ....to say Europe will turn a blind eye to who leaves their borders doesn't make sense, its not the countries the immigrants leave that control migration its the borders of the country that they enter, you still have to show your passport when you arrive even if your from the EU, if we regain control then we can choose who comes and how they benefit our country so if we have a nurse shortage that cannot be filled by UK citizens then we gives a higher points award to anyone wanting to come in with the right skills, this system then is fair no matter what country your from around the world and doesn't give priority to say a Greek Doctor over an Indian doctor just because of where they come from... at the moment we cannot say no to any EU citizen and we are having to put stricter control on non-EU immigrants which is biased and unfair and as has been proven not to be workable, limiting overall immigration while we have unrestricted EU member access cannot be done. I don't know your age here but the majority of the Elder populous want out and the reason is mainly because they have witnessed over the last 40yrs how the EU has impacted the UK, how when anyone could access a doctor within 24hrs, where education standards were higher and we had enough places at your school of choice for your children, where you could leave school and get a job and apply for a mortgage with a high rate of success, even been part of the EU all this was possible until about 1997 then as a leaving gift Tony Blair cut lots of red tape regarding immigration which led to a massive rise from an easily managed 30000 a year to what we now see as well over 300 000 officially but is estimated to be 800000 as many don't go through the system to be counted.
Just take a look at our Jails with some now >50% EU criminals and the EU red tape is so difficult to get through that it means we have a small towns worth of criminals waiting deportation just to the EU alone, taking our borders back and controlling them would stop EU criminals legally coming to the UK as we will only take in EU members who show they would benefit our society. Its worked for Australia and is still working so this is in no way a leap in the dark as we have a well trialed model to follow, what did make me laugh was Camerons reply saying immigration in Australia's point based system is twice that of the UK until someone pointed out to him that that is because they choose it to be.
If we leave and regain control then:-
-Thousands of places in jails become available.
-Housing can start to catch up with demand which will see prices lower for first time buyers.
-Wages for the poorest will rise as big PLC's can no longer favour the low skilled lower wage EU citizens from a UK citizen.
-Hospital, Doctors waiting times start to fall as our National health is no longer trying to supplement the International position it finds itself in.
-Lower demand for school places and less pupils whose first laungage isn't English, this means teachers are not having to give more resources and attention to non English EU citizens at the cost in time and education of our own offspring.
These and many more are just the plausable benefits of taking back control and are based on recent UK history when Immigration was at a controllable level so not based on wild fanciful guesses, it used to be like this but with the intergration of yet more poorer nations into the EU we will see yet more rises in immigration and as the southern EU members see no ease in youth unemployment and massive debts to Brussels its clear its going to get alot worse before it gets better.
When more poorer members join up we are set to be asked to give more to the EU as we were when Poland, Romania etc joined... so unless someone can justify staying in as oppose to scaremongering what nasty things would happen if we left then Im obviously out and thats based on following EU politics for years.
Absolutely right Tel. I think DW is wasted as a sparky, he should be running the country.a well thought out post, full of truths, not the crap the politicians dish out. it really wants posting on social media to give some of the undecided a no=biassed viewpoint.
Daily mail???!! What are you going on about.I nearly replied along the lines of what country are you living in, but iv'e just noticed. What a load of bl**dy rubbish do you get the daily mail up there??
Why?? Go on, what's the main problem?Daily mail???!! What are you going on about.
Dont jump to conclusions now, I'm not all for mass immigration. I think we all know the main problem but not allowed to say it.
My gut instinct tells me to be very wary of what Boris and Farage are telling us.
He waffle's on a bit though. Mind you, so do most politicians!Absolutely right Tel. I think DW is wasted as a sparky, he should be running the country.
How about they lie, like pigs in manure. I refer you to post 497.Why?? Go on, what's the main problem?
Daily mail???!! What are you going on about.
Dont jump to conclusions now, I'm not all for mass immigration. I think we all know the main problem but not allowed to say it.
My gut instinct tells me to be very wary of what Boris and Farage are telling us.
I simply don't trust them.Why?? Go on, what's the main problem?
He waffle's on a bit though. Mind you, so do most politicians!
It isn't about individuals and whether or not you trust them, it is about forming an opinion based on the evidence available, and a common sense approach as to what the future will bring. Contrary to your previous comment, our services are already dangerously stretched. We have problems with housing stock, oversized classrooms, social services and a gradual drop in levels of pay particularly amongst unskilled workers. There are unacceptable levels of unemployment among young people over much of Europe, because growth in the EU has been stifled. As can be seen from the quotes provided by Silverfox the EU is an un-demoratic monster led by unelected power crazed and as far as I am concerned untrustworthy politicians. We pay outrageous sums of money in order to bolster up the failing or failed economies of many of the other member states, money that we could be far better invested in our own country. The NHS is providing health care for half of Europe, no wonder it is falling apart. We have been conned right from day one by that clown Ted Heath and his like, and in my opinion we need to take this golden opportunity to abandon this mess and stand on our own two feet again. To answer your question I think Boris speaks a damn sight more sense than most of the Remain mob and I respect him a lot more than Cameron, Osborne & Co.I simply don't trust them.
Do you respect and trust Boris?
i'd trust boris before i'd trust the hyenas that are at present in the government and the main opposition.I simply don't trust them.
Do you respect and trust Boris?
It isn't about individuals and whether or not you trust them, it is about forming an opinion based on the evidence available, and a common sense approach as to what the future will bring. Contrary to your previous comment, our services are already dangerously stretched. We have problems with housing stock, oversized classrooms, social services and a gradual drop in levels of pay particularly amongst unskilled workers. There are unacceptable levels of unemployment among young people over much of Europe, because growth in the EU has been stifled. As can be seen from the quotes provided by Silverfox the EU is an un-demoratic monster led by unelected power crazed and as far as I am concerned untrustworthy politicians. We pay outrageous sums of money in order to bolster up the failing or failed economies of many of the other member states, money that we could be far better invested in our own country. The NHS is providing health care for half of Europe, no wonder it is falling apart. We have been conned right from day one by that clown Ted Heath and his like, and in my opinion we need to take this golden opportunity to abandon this mess and stand on our own two feet again. To answer your question I think Boris speaks a damn sight more sense than most of the Remain mob and I respect him a lot more than Cameron, Osborne & Co.
“They must go on voting until they get it right.” (Jose Manuel Barroso, President of the European Commission)
They will be the next out after us.Hum.... so if its a win for out and the EU ask us to vote again do they think we will say yes on the 2nd try? I think its likely to alienate more people and just go to show how undemocratic the EU is.
After all about 4 weeks ago the Dutch had a vote and the EU completely ignored their wishes....
just had a skim through that. appears that when the electorate vote for out, the government will then elect to stay in the single market, thus scuppering the desires of the majority who vote out mainly to abolish things that the gov. will then vote to retain. that's democracy for you.An interesting development.
MPs 'considering using majority' to keep UK in single market
see here. MPs 'considering using majority' to keep UK in single market - BBC News
just had a skim through that. appears that when the electorate vote for out, the government will then elect to stay in the single market, thus scuppering the desires of the majority who vote out mainly to abolish things that the gov. will then vote to retain. that's democracy for you.
it's not that. it's the lies and spin. if the vote is for out, then that should mean out. that includes out of the single market which is crippling us and scrapping contributions to the EU, controlling migration from the EU,and our democratically inepted government making UK laws for the UK. from what he says, the hyenas will probably votre to negate all the advantages of leaving will bring. the phrase "sour grapes" comes to mind.
Completely 100% out is one end of a very wide spectrum Tel. I think you're correct in that what most people voting out want that. But not all and certainly not the leaders of vote leave.
Maybe another referendum is called for.
One way to avoid the mess would be to vote remain.:smiley2:
Of course the OUT campaigners cannot put forward a cast-iron plan of exactly how it will be once we are out, because it is blindingly obvious that we cannot know until we do it. I cannot understand how people expect them to do so. What they can do is use the evidence that is before us to point to all the problems that the EU is now causing us and will continue to do so with an increasingly detrimental effect. The negative effects and aspects do not actually seem to be disputed amongst most of the people I have talked to, rather some of them just have the attitude of "oooooohh we can't risk it better the devil you know" and so on. Well IMO it's a good job we didn't have that attitude 50 odd years ago! I for one would rather take a brave step forward and have the courage of my convictions, I am totally convinced that we would be able to continue to trade with the EU but also be able to make other trading relationships with the rest of the world, a lot of which has far better growth than the EU does, as well as freeing up vast sums of cash to put right all the cuts that have had to be made to the EU bill for years. The EU is descending into madness, we should have the belief in ourselves to leave it behind and strive for something better, because I for one think we deserve not to be run and dictated to by the likes of Junkers and Co. Why, when I picture in my mind these EU commissioners, do I get an image of Sepp Blatter?? Say no more......
Reply to EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news" in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net
We get it, advertisements are annoying!
Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.