Help with test and inspection.

[JiMMySnoW]

you are foreign aren't you? Where are you from?

Curious fellow, I am from my mothers belly. I am English, not just foreigners know how to pull strings if that is where you are barking.

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Impossible to quote £40 max for fault finding. Sorry, but no wonder you are bankrupt with business plans like this. A bit like 'I WILL MOT your piece of she-ite car for £40, no matter what is wrong with it, I will put it right'.

No I went bankrupt when I was employed and was a good thing, because it woke me up. My business plan would work.

How many call outs do you think landlords have each year for electrics? Probably would have to do it over 5 years.

Say I manage to get 20 clients in the beginning out the prospective 300 or so I have to send leaflets to. Then they would all be paying £5 a month.

How many call outs would there be from them in a year?

But you are right it will not work, because I am not focused enough to follow through with the plan. I do not have the passion. But please the plan would work, I mean one could test the waters with more but £5 is good.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

I, too, am from my mother's belly, enough to know that you are not from these shores. It matters not, I was just trying to get a measure of you and your electrical/ experience/ educational background.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

If you're not of Pakistani origin, I will eat my feet. That's not a problem! I just like to know/ guess. I will help ANYBODY regardless of background but honesty must prevail, and be the basis of any trust.

 

[Guitarist]

Jimmy, you've messed up on this one, and with the greatest respect to you (as I'm sure you're a nice guy), you sound somewhat naive. I wish you all the best in your care work

 

[JiMMySnoW]

I, too, am from my mother's belly, enough to know that you are not from these shores. It matters not, I was just trying to get a measure of you and your electrical/ experience/ educational background.

I am English, JESUS. Praah head

am on iPhone, sorry for spell error.

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Jimmy, you've messed up on this one, and with the greatest respect to you (as I'm sure you're a nice guy), you sound somewhat naive. I wish you all the best in your care work

Well thank you for the nice, because I am. To say I messed up, where? I made a few mistakes sure, my mind is not fully on being an electrician. The job I went to today, or the whole business plan?


Multiple levels. If only you knew, I am very trusting though.
Childlike sometimes, who's not. As far as being able to follow through with a business, I have too much other stuff on my mind. Why I decide to discus here, not sure. I have enjoyed just chatting, didn't realise there would be a jury.


I am a good electrician, safe and hardworking. I am English. I am sorry if I disappoint 'VoltzElectrical,

 

[CrazyScozzese]

Getting back to the original post (which probably isn't the main point here now) I am surprised by a lot of the responses here.

A 40 amp cooker? That is maximum theoretical demand, I would be surprised if it had a draw of more than half that for any length of time long enough to cause overload. A 32 or even a 25 would be OK, even at Christmas. 32 would allow some capacity for when the sockets are in use at the same time. The regs do not say that you need a 40 amp breaker for a 40 amp domestic cooker.

2.5mm spur off of a 6mm? Who said a 32 is not allowed? You can have a 2.5 spur of of every socket on a ring with a 32. Sounds like it is less than 3m too, so it can be fused at the far end, being the sockets. Whoever said swap them to SFCU's had a good idea. Do them both and hard wire the appliances. What is wrong with that?

To be honest, if it was an EICR you could say that the cable was effectively protected by the load, being 13a or less, fused plugs.

The only issue of note that would bother me is the inaccessible junctions, done by someone who thought it is OK to do this in the first place. If I had reason to belive it was a sub-standard joint, based on other work in the installation, I would disconnect it at the sockets as someone else said, and run a spur on the surface hidden behind the kitchen units if poss.

But then back to the real point, Jay-Snow, you really should have sussed it out first with some simple testing, especially if using it as a Nicey inspection. Know your adversary, whether it is the client, the job or you.

Cr. Ed

 

[i=p/u]

This 3m fusing doesn't count in domestic it's related to buss bars ... Industrial etc.

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Getting back to the original post (which probably isn't the main point here now) I am surprised by a lot of the responses here.

A 40 amp cooker? That is maximum theoretical demand, I would be surprised if it had a draw of more than half that for any length of time long enough to cause overload. A 32 or even a 25 would be OK, even at Christmas. 32 would allow some capacity for when the sockets are in use at the same time. The regs do not say that you need a 40 amp breaker for a 40 amp domestic cooker.

2.5mm spur off of a 6mm? Who said a 32 is not allowed? You can have a 2.5 spur of of every socket on a ring with a 32. Sounds like it is less than 3m too, so it can be fused at the far end, being the sockets. Whoever said swap them to SFCU's had a good idea. Do them both and hard wire the appliances. What is wrong with that?

To be honest, if it was an EICR you could say that the cable was effectively protected by the load, being 13a or less, fused plugs.

The only issue of note that would bother me is the inaccessible junctions, done by someone who thought it is OK to do this in the first place. If I had reason to belive it was a sub-standard joint, based on other work in the installation, I would disconnect it at the sockets as someone else said, and run a spur on the surface hidden behind the kitchen units if poss.

But then back to the real point, Jay-Snow, you really should have sussed it out first with some simple testing, especially if using it as a Nicey inspection. Know your adversary, whether it is the client, the job or you.

Cr. Ed

Thank you. Yes I should of, tail has been imbetween my legs the whole day. I was trying to hit too many birds with one stone.

I should of pre-tested, I took the risk knowing that I am capable of any remedy that would of popped up. I sadly did not consider the client feelings. I did push to get this job to complete what I needed. I reassured him to a point of him being convinced that the job would have little effect towards him.

I have beat myself up about it, yes I still have to rectify and I will. Let it be known though that this potentially dangerous condition would of not been known otherwise.

I am glad though like I said, I just do not have the heart for electrics. Maybe it's been the break I have had from the electrical world. I will change the 40 amp to a 32amp, this seem like the easiest position which will not effect the client.

To have messed up would of not to cared, asked questions. The £5 a month would work if one could get the clients to sign up. I am offski, thank you for the open discussion.

 

[CrazyScozzese]

This 3m fusing doesn't count in domestic it's related to buss bars ... Industrial etc.

Best tell the IET then.

 

[Richard Burns]

The double socket itself has a limited load of 26A which is within that of the 2.5mm cable (if method C), therefore there is no need to protect that cable against overload (though I would strongly expect it to be protected), the cable is protected against short circuit by the 40A breaker.

The breaker is over rated for a cooker as it could be dropped to 32A this would be closer to protecting the 2.5mm cable and be more suitable for the cooker, unless one is expecting two fan heaters in the sockets on Christmas day!

Overall this is not a good situation but is not non complaint with the letter of the regs.

Do the best you can to make this a better situation and much more within the expected safety levels.
I would expect to drop the breaker to 32A.
If you wanted you could fit a timer socket or a data socket, or a cooker outlet socket (though that last may be asking for trouble) with nothing wired to the other side. Or fit one of the double to three gang converter that are limited to 13A total, to make thing slightly better.

 

[CrazyScozzese]

Thank you. Yes I should of, tail has been imbetween my legs the whole day. I was trying to hit too many birds with one stone.

I should of pre-tested, I took the risk knowing that I am capable of any remedy that would of popped up. I sadly did not consider the client feelings. I did push to get this job to complete what I needed. I reassured him to a point of him being convinced that the job would have little effect towards him.

I have beat myself up about it, yes I still have to rectify and I will. Let it be known though that this potentially dangerous condition would of not been known otherwise.

I am glad though like I said, I just do not have the heart for electrics. Maybe it's been the break I have had from the electrical world. I will change the 40 amp to a 32amp, this seem like the easiest position which will not effect the client.

To have messed up would of not to cared, asked questions. The £5 a month would work if one could get the clients to sign up. I am offski, thank you for the open discussion

Tell the client to get an experienced spark to do an EICR.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

As you have fitted a new CU you must use the appropriate protective device for the circuit otherwise your work will not comply. As above I think I would disconnect the cooker on those grounds if you feel the load is too great for the circuit..what happens after you leave is the clients business...however I think you'll find if you explain what you are doing and why they will have you back to rectify pretty sharpish..!

what?...and leave em without a cooker?...dont talk stupid man.
to the O/P:
as has been suggested..clamp it....see what it draws.....
theres diversity you can apply with cookers as well...
if its a 2.5 cable...then give it 20 A top end....that will take care of the problem..and dont forget that a B curve MCB to BSEN60898 will hold for upto 1.45X its operating current for upto an hour before letting go...

 

[JiMMySnoW]

Tell the client to get an experienced spark to do an EICR.

Please tell me you wrote that for comedy value.

Ok what are we doing here? talk about giving me good pasting! Jesus.


I have plenty of employed experience, I told him that it has failed and how I would like to correct it. Remember the client is not wanting me to look into the fault, causes him to much inconvenience. We have been suggesting how to get around the obstacle of not being able to lift floor etc


I will suggest to him to go get a spark that will charge him what £120, he will love that idea. So that we can see wether IT even gets picked up. Lol come on man.

Off really now couldn't leave with that being said.

 

[Des 56]

I read his first post and sympathise with his predicament
He has taken some very nasty unjustified stick for coming on here and looking for some guidance

He has been warned about going to Jail and leaving a dangerous situation
The drama of those comments are over the top( thats being kind to the description)
The dire warnings and drama are more suited to the stage than this situation

Lets keep in mind,he did not install this circuit,he discovered the problem with what seems some very observant inspection
How many of the present day (6 Eicrs a day and all that) standard Eicrs would have detected the issue he has presented ? very few I would guess,

The double socket will have limitations of load,the cooker will probably draw much less than the capacity of the cable,even with a fully loaded double socket the circuit should handle the load

The capacity of the cable is well within manufacturers rating for double sockets,they rate them at more like 20 amp rather than 2 x 13 amps that is being held up by the doomers

There must be countless installations with this same issue and probably plodding along quite happily as well

To the op
Thev Niceic guy will most likely only get to know of this problem if you tell him
You can disconnect the circuit for the inspection and watch as the householder reinstates the circuit himself

This looks to me like beating up on someone who has found this problem.he has had no co operation from the customer and is caught between a rock and a hard place

 

[Geordie Spark]

Electricians Forum - now twinned with Dogs Sleeping Forum ? Index page

 

[Des 56]

Electricians Forum - now twinned with Dogs Sleeping Forum ? Index page

How did you manage to find that forum ?
With a title like that,it may be worth a gander

 

[Geordie Spark]

How did you manage to find that forum ?
With a title like that,it may be worth a gander

It's one to be avoided as far as I'm concerned.

It's one to go to when you feel like you want to be ripped to shreds. Quite nasty really.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It's one to be avoided as far as I'm concerned.

It's one to go to when you feel like you want to be ripped to shreds. Quite nasty really.

i should cope quite well in there then....