Minor works certified with no RCD protection

[westward10]

Isn't changing an RCD or fitting a new protective device considered an alternation and therefore not minor works? It requires an Electrical Installation Certificate.

Also the old BS 4293 ae no longer compliant with BS 7671 and should be replaced if major alterations are taking place.

I don't think there is one part of this post which is correct or valid. I hope your are not giving this advise or completing EICRs with such comments.

 

[Pat H]

I did say it was only to be changed if major works were undertaken. For minor works I agree it would not be required.

And it would have been clearer if I'd said the BS4293 had been superceded rather than non compliant.

But I'm sure changing a protective device or adding one isn't covered under minor works. Page 418 of the regs.

 

[westward10]

I did say it was only to be changed if major works were undertaken. For minor works I agree it would not be required.

I have done works which you could consider more than minor and left BS3871, BS4293 etc.. in situ.

 

[Pat H]

Interesting to google the question is adding an RCD minor works. Lots of differing views.
My view is it falls outside minor as a change to the fixed wiring and normally related to the distribution board.
But interested to hear views both ways.

 

[westward10]

Interesting to google the question is adding an RCD minor works. Lots of differing views.
My view is it falls outside minor as a change to the fixed wiring and normally related to the distribution board.
But interested to hear views both ways.

Google away it is Minor Works.

 

[Octopus]

Interesting to google the question is adding an RCD minor works. Lots of differing views.
My view is it falls outside minor as a change to the fixed wiring and normally related to the distribution board.
But interested to hear views both ways.

Hum..... This post makes it so obvious you aren't working to earn a living as a spark as no spark would advocate filling out an EIC when they could do a single page MWC

 

[Deleted member 26818]

If it is an existing circuit, then any alteration to it is an alteration.
An EIC may be used or a MEIWC may be used.
If there are a number of circuits being altered then perhaps an EIC would be better as a MEIWC should only be used for a single circuit.

 

[Pat H]

Hum..... This post makes it so obvious you aren't working to earn a living as a spark as no spark would advocate filling out an EIC when they could do a single page MWC

You rumbled me Murdoch although reading my profile would have told you the same.
Yup I come from the Broadcast TV industry as an Engineer so Electrics was just part of my work over 30 years. And its a very different world to domestic as we have the time and budget not to need to cut corners.
That was then and I'm now delivering technical training a few days a month with pays the wages. The move to Domestic work was partly based on local demand and partly as an alternative local part time job (the technical training often involves travel and hotels) So my training and recent C&G exams are still fresh in my mind which is why its so interesting to hear opinions on these forums so different to what's being taught nowadays.

Maybe they teach at a "stricter" level on the assumption that exposer in the field will level the actual delivery? Who knows.

But yes I do have the luxury of only tackling the jobs I feel comfortable with and applying the regulations as I've been taught. If I'm losing work then others are gaining which is fine by me.

Apologies for the off topic wandering.

 

[Octopus]

Y
Yup I come from the Broadcast TV industry as an Engineer so Electrics was just part of my work over 30 years. And its a very different world to domestic as we have the time and budget not to need to cut corners.

Hum... a MWC is perfectly acceptable - how is that cutting corners?

 

[Pat H]

Because I was explicitly told it wasn't. So to do so would be to go against what I was taught.
But I'm sure time will wear of my new corners.

 

[Octopus]

Because I was explicitly told it wasn't. So to do so would be to go against what I was taught.
But I'm sure time will wear of my new corners.

By who?

 

[ETO]

I get problems like this all the time (QS for a housing association). Normally the contractor just passes on that there is a problem and we usually agree for them or another contractor to upgrade the CU. Doesn't help that the investment department never surveys these types of upgrades and account for any extra work. I just insist it gets done. Once the contactor has passed on their duty of care by letting me know there is insufficient RCD protection in this case, it's down to me (the housing association) to ensure the work is compliant. I wouldn't expect or want any contractor to sign off substandard or unsafe work. And they would risk being removed from the contact if this was ever picked up in the auditing process (which it does).

 

[westward10]

I get problems like this all the time (QS for a housing association). Normally the contractor just passes on that there is a problem and we usually agree for them or another contractor to upgrade the CU. Doesn't help that the investment department never surveys these types of upgrades and account for any extra work. I just insist it gets done. Once the contactor has passed on their duty of care by letting me know there is insufficient RCD protection in this case, it's down to me (the housing association) to ensure the work is compliant. I wouldn't expect or want any contractor to sign off substandard or unsafe work. And they would risk being removed from the contact if this was ever picked up in the auditing process (which it does).

I don't get the relevance of this Post.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Neither do I, but then I haven't read the whole thread.
Good post though.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Because I was explicitly told it wasn't. So to do so would be to go against what I was taught.
But I'm sure time will wear of my new corners.

I can absolutely guarantee you that after you've filled in a few EIC's for poxy little jobs like changing an RCD, spent an hour each time gathering all the irrelevant information and test readings required.....you'll join the real world and use a bloody MW, which is quite capable of giving all the data to verify compliance of a new RCD.
Using a sledgehammer to crack a nut is not clever, it's just stupid.

 

[westward10]

Some advise please. I have just done some minor works, do I fill in a Minor Works or an Installation Cert. HELP.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Some advise please. I have just done some minor works, do I fill in a Minor Works or an Installation Cert. HELP.

Neither.....an EICR.

 

[westward10]

Neither.....an EICR.

Minor Works seems the obvious thing for minor works, now you have really confused me.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Neither.....an EICR.

Minor Works seems the obvious thing for minor works, now you have really confused me.

Was being cantankerous!....Obviously a MW. Ignore post #37!!

 

[Wilko]

Hi not sure how serious this is (?) so sorry in advance if I've got it wrong. BYB reg 631.3 - "where minor installation work does not include the provision of a new circuit, a Minor EIW Cert. may be provided" . To me, this sets the minimum requirement : no new cct on Minor Works.
GN3 p111 para 1 adds - Minor Works may not be used "for the replacement of distribution boards or similar".
I'm always happy to learn if that's not everything. Cheers.