Non G83 inverters in UK

[Blueflash]

Can you easily buy non G83 solar inverters in UK. As in the fact they don't need AC to function?
Thanks

 

[Gavin A]

by non g83 do you mean off grid / non grid connected?

if so, then yes.

 

[Blueflash]

Could it still be connected for fits but island completely in a power cut. I understand the rules the law and everything else.
But as you know what is the point in micro generation if its no use during power outages?

 

[TedM]

Do you want an off-grid system or one that is on-grid most of the time but continues to function in a power cut? The latter will be more expensive.

You can still claim FiT for an off-grid system. Any of the 'big 6' electricity companies must accept a contract for an off-grid system. You will have to make an extra annual declaration that the system remains eligible. You won't be able to have a DC-only off-grid system as you still need an approved generation meter to measure the production and the ones available, to my knowledge, can only measure AC. If this is measuring battery-connected inverter output then you won't be able to use a backup generator to re-charge the batteries.

 

[Beavstro]

Tbh blueflah, your best bet if you want a FIT eligible inverter, is to look on the MCS website. As it has to be MCS approved to be eligible for the FIT.
with regards to one that will island completely during a power cut (and I assume by this statement you want one that is grid connected) no, you will not get one that has no G83 and will be able to connect to the grid as no electricity supplier will allow it. The G 83 is a required set of parameters (put in place by electricity suppliers to ensure safety if their system) to which the inverter MUST operate in order to connect to the grid.

Is there a way to have electricity in a power cut...? Yes...

Is it expensive...? Yes, you need batteries, inverters, upkeep/replacement of the batteries, system design/installation

is it worth the expense for the amount of power cuts you get...? Probably not. I bet you get a few hours of power cut a year........?

 

[Worcester]

@Beavstro - Inverters aren't subject to MCS Certification, that's why we're talking about G83


re the price of batteries - this quote still holds true:
"The battery that can store more power (sic - energy) in £ terms over it's lifetime than it's own cost has yet to be invented"

 

[Beavstro]

@Beavstro - Inverters aren't subject to MCS Certification, that's why we're talking about G83

It depends for what purpose, if you would like to be eligabale for the FIT it does. It may betrue for some technologies the inverter doesn't not have to be MCS appreoved I don't know. However for small wind it does. The inverter is considered part of the system.
I have helped put a turbine through this product certification and believe me it is a fact .
Taken from the BWEA small wind certifificarion standard (2008) which if you want to MCS certify (document 006 rev. 1.5) a wind turbine you HAVE TO COMPLY WITH.....

"1.3.3 A turbine system includes the wind turbine itself, the turbine controller, the inverter, if required, wiring and disconnects, and the installation and operation manual(s)."

Which in all fairness makes perfect sense, the scheme was brought into effect to stop cheap crap/ poor installations being sold to innocent consumers, which doesn't then work as it should.
Why would you certify a turbine with one inverter, which is the only inverter it can operate to its full quoted specification, to then sell it with a different inverter which cannot operate the turbine as it should and thus not as its quoted specification. And more importantly is not what was tested and verified by the MCS scheme and thus deemed as an acceptable product?

 

[Worcester]

Yes, however the OP is talking about SOLAR..

and you are also now saying that the MCS certify "wiring and disconnects"
no they don't, that's covered by BS7671 and G83 (and interpreted in the MCS PV guide)

 

[Beavstro]

It mentions nothing about solar in the OP. the part of the forum is for solar AND green energy.

I never personally said those things, I quoted that from the text. Hence the " marks.... At any rate the MCS do asses the installers installations to verify they are doing what they say they are doing. Ie installed the correct wiring and that it disconnects. To the said standards bs7671 and g83
And as for whatever's in the MCS PVC guide... As I said I don't have any knowledge of that.
That's all by the by anyway, I used my quote to show you that in the small wind MCS at least, that the inverter was in fact considered part of the system. and as you know you need MCS on your product to be eligible for the FIT.

 

[TedM]

I think you are misinterpreting the MCS standards. Even in PV the inverter is still considered part of the 'system' that is governed by MCS installer standards but they are not covered by MCS product standards.

There is an accepted pathway for changing an inverter on a small wind turbine that certainly doesn't require re-testing to the standard.
See http://www.microgenerationcertification.org/images/RenewableUK Inverter Techn Note 2.0.pdf and the flowchart on p13/14.

Inverters may become MCS-certified products in the future if the DNOs get their way.

 

[Beavstro]

Yeah, I know that the installer and product standards are different,
it was when the MCS first came into effect back in 2009 that I put a turbine through the testing, and at the time they were very indecisive as to weather the inverter is classed as part of the system or not, at the time they told us it was and for easiness sake we did it their way. Even after arguing that the inverter was not made by the manufacturer, and thus not to do with the turbine etc etc. they wanted us to test fully the turbine with each separate inverter set up (the testing taking approx 9 months as you can't predict wind....) which was just insane! The cost would have ebbed £200k at the time!!
i see they have progressed slightly with the document you brought my attention too, .