Discuss Retraining for other technologies? in the Solar PV Forum | Solar Panels Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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Has anyone considered training in other technologies - Solar thermal, ASHP etc?

Do you think it is worth getting plumbing training as there looks like there may be a fair bit of work from the Green Deal in the future?

Just considering our gameplan at the moment.
 
We have had solar thermal and heat pumps from the start of MCS.
We employ two plumbers and have done solar thermal for years anyway. Both technologies are plumbing orientated and neither are an easy sale. During the last three years most of the time our plumbers have been PV roofers!

Solar thermal saves less than £100 a year according to the Energy Saving trust website so with an average of £5000 outlay the maths dont look great for customers.
Heat pumps are only really suitable for people not on the gas supply so it sort of depends where your trading area is.

Obviously in rural Dorset villages , Solar Thermal , ASHP and GSHP installations stack up well against oil and tanked gas but the outlay puts people off.

The Renewable Heat Incentive is just a lot of government hot air and its like promising customers a pot at the end of the rainbow. It was meant to launch in October 2009 so next month will be its third birthday, despite the fact it has yet to be born !!
Also Non MCS thermal is a lot cheaper than MCS thermal and with no RHI as a carrot its not a nailed on sale.

If you go for heat pumps you have to do the training courses and update courses at your own cost for every manufacturer so we have stuck to Danfoss and Mitsubishi.

Also these are water systems and that brings a whole lot of other considerations.

I have no idea how many PV systems you have done but maybe you could ask them if they have considered a heat pump or solar thermal.
These people know and trust you and if you get a hit rate of more than 10% of your existing customer base I will be amazed.
You might sell a few ASHP for hot water only run from your PV projects but only if the people have an immersion cylinder etc etc

Furthermore in your efforts to get them the best PV system in the past you have probably used up any viable roof space for solar thermal , as you will need about 2m square !

Sorry if this seems negative but maybe you should try to get some customer interest established before throwing your money away.
I do not believe you will sale many systems and meet the golden rule for Green Deal for heat pumps unless the customer is on oil as recomendations are generated by the EPC.
 
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I was working in a house a few (about 6 now) years ago and it had an old fashioned 7 segment Red LED thermostat display and Solar water/ Solar thermal panels on the roof......the thermostat panel had a sticker on it with installation date marked as 1987, so they have been at it for a while, its just that its everywhere now and back then it was for show or the very few who had any understanding about the environment, although I think it was mainly a show gadget back in the days of the briefcase mobile phone...

The house was a Holiday home and not much had been touched in it since about the 1980's......the owner who never really went near decided that they wanted a new top of the range kitchen fitted and the old one ripped out.....the rest of the house was still stuck back in the 1980's.....that's what made the solar set up stand out because it had been fitted so many years ago...the windows were all still single glazed with the chrome handle with a round black bakelite ball handle....you know the kind...
 
Thought I might add, I don't do any Solar, but I see lots of solar installer vans going about and have noticed that about every 4rth house or so has half the roof covered in panels....
I wouldn't pay out to do a college course in Solar thermal now though as there's so many people doing it that I feel that I would just be buying an expensive bit of paper to get shoved in a folder and lost....
an OAP along the road from where my granddad lives paid a company £8,500 to put a few panels up on his garden shed roof just off the back of the sales patter from a company that kept pestering him.....I don't think he will see that back somehow...
 
For what it's worth I was considering MVHR. I'd only just found myself a subby and begun getting my head round it when three jobs came in. I'd've certainly continued with offering MVHR had I stayed in the green-energies industry. Admittedly it has no tariff associated with it but it is essential to any greeny / passiv-haus build and pretty much any new-build these days. It got us in with an architect etc etc. All in all very much worth looking into
 
we have re-trained in solar thermal and got MCS and we have just put up our first wind turbine on a exsisting customers property, it had to be put in under G59 and witness tested by the DNO because there is already PV on his roof, we are not getting pv work in but the thermal and wind are going ok
 
We started in Solar Thermal and the delay in the RHI which was supposed to be introduced in April 2011 forced us to add another add another technology: PV. We got our acceditation two weeks before the announcement of the the cuts to FITs in October last year. Our timing could not have been better!

Currently Solar thermal is asleep. To put some perspective on this under phase one of the Renewable Heat Premium Payment Scheme 1772 vouchers were redeemed for solar thermal. There are 1298 MCS registered solar thermal installers. Over the 12 month period of the scheme this means they installed an average of 1.36 systems each!! The total figure of installations will be higher as this does not take into consideration new build. The problem with the RHPP is that although it has been stated that all ST systems installed since July 2010 will qualify for the RHI, no one knows what this means. The current incentive is "I'll give you £300.00 now but I am not going to tell you what You will get for the 20 years of the RHI." Little wonder the scheme has been a disaster.

Solar thermal should be a sleeping giant. It is a far more appropriate technology for a lot of properties than PV. Area of roof covered is only 3 to 4 sq Metres. You can install good quality kit anywhere from east to west and compensate through sizing. Shade is not such a critical issue.

The down side is the proliferation of Combi boilers which make installation more problematic, especially in the area of legionella prevention. There are way too many properties where people have been sold the option of a combi, where quite frankly it was not the best solution for them.

The domestic side of the RHI looks promising. We are likely to see the 20 year qualification period compressed down to something like 7 years. It is hoped there may be full capital recovery in this period. Payments will be deemed, not measured. The caveat to this is it is not yet clear what the control mechanism will be to stop the scheme running away as the FIT did. We could end up with a stop go situation where it is rationed. It is hoped solar thermal will be treated differently to the other renewable heat technologies. The latter may only qualify in off-grid areas. ST is appropriate for any property, on or off grid. It is also hoped that there will not be a nutty digression mechanism. ST is a mature technology, and is unlikely to benefit from the kind of cost reductions seen in PV. Much of it also contains a lot of copper or stainless steel, neither of which is getting cheaper.

There should be a consultation document on the domestic RHI this autumn which will give a better picture of DECC's thinking on the issue.

If I were a PV installer looking at ST, I would approach it the same way I approached PV. I hold qualification in PV, but am not an electrician. The electrician I have worked with for years does all that. I design and specify. I also have a background in building renovation that makes building regs and roofs much easier. Do bear in mind the recent consultation on alignment of MCS with National Occupational Standards. I went through the experienced worker route over plumbing before we started in ST having my work based skills assessed as exceeding NVQ/SVQ 2, meaning good for everything except gas. ( I work with a GAS SAFE heating engineer for that). For ST you need a specific ST qualification such as the BPEC course, and unvented cylinder as a minimum. Things like water bye-laws and energy conservation are also useful. The BPEC course is not beyond someone with a working knowledge of plumbing and the kind of practical skills electrical engineering brings. My advice would be use a plumber and ensure they hold a ST qualification. You can't do everything yourself.

System design and implementation can be complex due to the varied and different ways water temperature is topped up when there is insufficient solar gain. In a lot of properties you will be dealing with the history of plumbing. Do not be fooled in to thinking it is an easy option to do well.

I retain my optimism for solar thermal. It is a great technology. You store everything you produce and use it as you need it. Do not enter unless you have the same kind of belief in it that I do.
 
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