Taking money for certification - customer dont wanna pay!

[Geordie Spark]

I have just read this entire thread and can honestly say never in my life has my mind been so comprehensively boggled !!

 

[Balarizaaf]

I have just read this entire thread and can honestly say never in my life has my mind been so comprehensively boggled !!

I will keep you updated on Monday

 

[Geordie Spark]

I will keep you updated on Monday

I await your update with great interest.

 

[Sharpend]

I would say that never mind what you think you can or can not do, clearly business is not your strong point, so I'd probably recommend that you work with an experienced guy and see how business is conducted over here? Once you grasp that concept then you might find you have fewer problems and come across more professional. Personally I think you will need to put this down to a learning curve and next time try a different strategy. Honesty perhaps, tends to work well on these waters.

 

[Paul.M]

Forget the "electricians hand book". Just show the customer and the other spark section 631.1 or 631.3 depending on what work you have completed. Basically you have to issue a cert regardless of being in Scotland, the problem you have is that you are over charging for it on an itemized bill and she has picked up on it.

Knock £150 off the bill, give her the certs and take this one on the chin and move on.

 

[Guitarist]

Off-Topic is not allowed neither;p It is someone else using my IP, you can tell it basing on his grammar;p

I thought that the grammar was identical myself...

 

[trev]

I thought that the grammar was identical myself...

Grammar? What grammar mate?
I'll have to get myself a copy of this electrician's handbook, it sounds really....handy.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Grammar? What grammar mate?
I'll have to get myself a copy of this electrician's handbook, it sounds really....handy.

Aye ........... punch a hole through it at the top left corner, then tread a piece of string through the hole, tie the ends of the string together to form a loop, then hang it from a nail bashed into the back of the netty door.

 

[telectrix]

as long as it's not shiny paper.....

 

[Geordie Spark]

as long as it's not shiny paper.....

Oh dear God ...... I still have nightmares about our school bogs which were outside in the yard, the shiny "Medicated" Izal bog roll and the annual outbreak of Dysentery that arrived just in time for the summer holidays.

 

[Will Mcloughlin]

GME,
that publication is some book with electrical regualtions; p

Do you mean the BS:7671 Wirring Redulations? wich as an electrician is our bible the very book that contains the acceptable readings and tables to cross refrence our results against to be sure there with in the legal limits ect. .
:dunce2:never heard of it. . .

 

[Guitarist]

"Electricians Handbook" has such a nice ring to it though, don't you think?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Do you mean the BS:7671 Wirring Redulations? wich as an electrician is our bible the very book that contains the acceptable readings and tables to cross refrence our results against to be sure there with in the legal limits ect. .
:dunce2:never heard of it. . .

I find that book extremely useful.

Since i put it under one of the legs I find my dining room table doesn't wobble as much as it used to.

 

[Dcf]

Oh dear God ...... I still have nightmares about our school bogs which were outside in the yard, the shiny "Medicated" Izal bog roll and the annual outbreak of Dysentery that arrived just in time for the summer holidays.

Nothing like a brown stripe halfway up yer back to pull the birds Geordie is there?
this fella is getting no advice from me.
if he had come clean at the start I would have felt more charitable.
i can see where the woman client and "the boring electrician with no work"are coming from tbf

 

[Balarizaaf]

Nothing like a brown stripe halfway up yer back to pull the birds Geordie is there?
this fella is getting no advice from me.
if he had come clean at the start I would have felt more charitable.
i can see where the woman client and "the boring electrician with no work"are coming from tbf

it is redish book with requirements for electrical installations, i will wipe off all confusions with that publication...

 

[trev]

You're using an out of date copy mate.
Ffs.

 

[Guitarist]

You're using an out of date copy mate.
Ffs.

I can't believe that he'd be working from the old edition of the regs Trev... Maybe it's a different book he's talking about. Something form Poland maybe?

 

[Balarizaaf]

I can't believe that he'd be working from the old edition of the regs Trev... Maybe it's a different book he's talking about. Something form Poland maybe?

hmmmm

 

[GMES]

At least he is using some version of bs7671 Trev all be it out of date, I think some of the numpties that post on here are more suited to the beano

 

[Guitarist]

At least he is using some version of bs7671 Trev all be it out of date, I think some of the numpties that post on here are more suited to the beano

We don't know that. He's still not told us what the "electricians handbook" is.

 

[GMES]

We don't know that. He's still not told us what the "electricians handbook" is.

True, Guitarist knowing our luck he's probably talking about Jamie oliver's latest cookbook. I have never been so confused by a single thread

 

[Balarizaaf]

True, Guitarist knowing our luck he's probably talking about Jamie oliver's latest cookbook. I have never been so confused by a single thread

Is there really anything less obvious than ECS BestPractise Guides? I was only trolling with that red book used just to pass 17th ed...

 

[davethsparky]

There is really nothing less obvious than the point you are trying to make here!

 

[GMES]

Let's try and get this thread back on track. You have done some work for a client she initially agreed price, now she feels that you are charging her for certifying said work, and refuses to pay. If you are charging extra to the original quote then she is right not to be happy, you should always include this within your price. As trev mentioned earlier in the thread all work should be certified, to cover your own backside and it is the least you can do for the client when charging for your services. The easiest way to resolve this confusing situation is to take an hit on the job, move forward, keep a good reputation for your company and learn from your mistake, good luck with your meeting.

 

[Paul.M]

^^^^^ I agree but I think I said it and not Trev. Love you Trev, no hard feelings lol....

No disrespect to the OP but you sound like a "Joe from down the pub" trying to "do it all" with basic quals and no testing experience. Charging £150 for the certification that you need to provide after your works is just a rip off IMHO.






Wish I had an electricians handbook. Would have saved a lot of time in college

 

[Balarizaaf]

Let's try and get this thread back on track. You have done some work for a client she initially agreed price, now she feels that you are charging her for certifying said work, and refuses to pay. If you are charging extra to the original quote then she is right not to be happy, you should always include this within your price. As trev mentioned earlier in the thread all work should be certified, to cover your own backside and it is the least you can do for the client when charging for your services. The easiest way to resolve this confusing situation is to take an hit on the job, move forward, keep a good reputation for your company and learn from your mistake, good luck with your meeting.

I would never do such a thing, I have a very good personality. I even have done some work not included in price agreement for free... I installed few pendant and wall lights and fixed some serious electrical issues which were not a problem with older customer unit but after replacement didnt work. I had to change a cable from fuse box to the kitchen and didnt say anything: /
I also fixed broken cable in ceiling which joiners have destroyed whilst doing its renovation. I think she is very lucky I had a camera which I put through the hole and I was able to find a box so with almost 0dmg I fixed the light. Most electricians would just pull out cable from pendant, brake everything and tell her to renew ceiling from scratch.

she agreed to the final price at the very beginning, I havent added anything, even though I have done big surplus work.

 

[shagbite]

I would never do such a thing

, I have a very good personality. I even have done some work not included in price agreement for free... I installed few pendant and wall lights and fixed some serious electrical issues which were not a problem with older customer unit but after replacement didnt work. I had to change a cable from fuse box to the kitchen and didnt say anything: /
I also fixed broken cable in ceiling which joiners have destroyed whilst doing its renovation. I think she is very lucky I had a camera which I put through the hole and I was able to find a box so with almost 0dmg I fixed the light. Most electricians would just pull out cable from pendant, brake everything and tell her to renew ceiling from scratch.

she agreed to the final price at the very beginning, I havent added anything, even though I have done big surplus work.

ballsrizaaf..............trust him, he's an engineer.

 

[Guitarist]

I would never do such a thing, I have a very good personality. I even have done some work not included in price agreement for free... I installed few pendant and wall lights and fixed some serious electrical issues which were not a problem with older customer unit but after replacement didnt work. I had to change a cable from fuse box to the kitchen and didnt say anything: /
I also fixed broken cable in ceiling which joiners have destroyed whilst doing its renovation. I think she is very lucky I had a camera which I put through the hole and I was able to find a box so with almost 0dmg I fixed the light. Most electricians would just pull out cable from pendant, brake everything and tell her to renew ceiling from scratch.

she agreed to the final price at the very beginning, I havent added anything, even though I have done big surplus work.

You sound like a nice guy who the customer is trying to take advantage of. If the £150 was for "testing and certification" then stress that the certification was a tiny part of that, and the majority was for all the time you spent testing the circuits. As already said, if the total price was agreed, and you haven't exceeded this, then I can't see the issue.

 

[davethsparky]

I think she is very lucky I had a camera which I put through the hole and I was able to find a box so with almost 0dmg I fixed the light. Most electricians would just pull out cable from pendant, brake everything and tell her to renew ceiling from scratch..

Tell me please, who are these 'most electricians' to whom you refer? I hope you are not suggesting that the vast majority of us are cowboys?

 

[GMES]

I am not accusing you of doing anything bad or wrong here I am simply saying it sounds like you have done the invoicing side of things wrong. As me , guitarist and a load of other members have said if you stuck to the agreed quote and have not tried to add anything on then there really shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Balarizaaf]

Tell me please, who are these 'most electricians' to whom you refer? I hope you are not suggesting that the vast majority of us are cowboys?

there was damaged cable between box and light pendant so I was really lucky to find the box using my inspection camera and be able to replace a cable without destroying big amount of ceiling. There were just two small holes in the ceiling that has been just renovated two days before.

@GMES: yeah, I know. I think I will talk to her on Monday and we will solve an issue. She is arguing to pay 150 as other electrician told her I cant take money for doing that. But she still needs to pay the rest of price:/ Anyway, I believe we will figure it out and she will pay at least price close to the one agreed at the start.

 

[Guitarist]

there was damaged cable between box and light pendant so I was really lucky to find the box using my inspection camera and be able to replace a cable without destroying big amount of ceiling. There were just two small holes in the ceiling that has been just renovated two days before.

@GMES: yeah, I know. I think I will talk to her on Monday and we will solve an issue. She is arguing to pay 150 as other electrician told her I cant take money for doing that. But she still needs to pay the rest of price:/ Anyway, I believe we will figure it out and she will pay at least price close to the one agreed at the start.

He's talking absolute rubbish, plus it's nothing to do with him. You can charge for anything you like, especially testing.
Just type out another invoice then with testing and inspection for £0, and add the £150 to labour charge.

 

[staggie65]

I've looked at this thread. A marriage made in heaven. You've gone in too cheap, she liked a cheap quote.
You're trying to claw money back for you're mistake.
Provide her with a copy of the test schedule for £0 and put it down to experience.

 

[i=p/u]

And it could be just how he presented quote, broke price down and she thinks 150 for testing which he should be doin anyway.. But it's just how he presented it.

Am I reading this right...

Like if I was going to wire a small flat and said 2 days each fix and £ 150 for testing instead of adding it into days/hours ...

 

[FAA Greenie]

Wow, great thread. You just need to explain that there has been a misunderstanding, take it on the chin and look at getting some invoicing lessons.

For example, at the bottom of my invoices, I have a section labelled 'Testing, certification and building control notification'

For a full cert it's usually £25 or a tenner for a minor works, the customer then knows that

1, They are receiving a cert
2, The work is being notified
3, They have not been 'jobbed' by some cowboy who will tear half the ceiling down, 'like most electricians' and walk off with £150 to boot.

 

[Balarizaaf]

Mistery solved. Her boiler has broken, and gas specalist told her Im a retard putting 13amp fuse in cable to boiler and I destroyed the device.
So he blamed me that the boiler got broken and they got no hot water. I went to her and explained I could give a 3amp fuse, it could help to prevet boiler from getting damaged but It is not my fault that it took too much power and a pump blew off.

She understands that now and she said there is no problem to pay me. Looks like I am a little drama queen lol, sorry guys and thans all for your help!

 

[davethsparky]

Well you are a prat for putting a 13 amp fuse in for a piece of equipment which requires a 3 amp fuse. Doesn't everyone know a domestic gas boiler should be fused at 3 amps? And even if not then it will be in the instructions for the boiler which you read before connecting it I assume?

I hope you made a note on this famous certificate to say that you installed it other than in accordance with the regulations and manufacturers instructions.

 

[Balarizaaf]

Well you are a prat for putting a 13 amp fuse in for a piece of equipment which requires a 3 amp fuse. Doesn't everyone know a domestic gas boiler should be fused at 3 amps? And even if not then it will be in the instructions for the boiler which you read before connecting it I assume?

I hope you made a note on this famous certificate to say that you installed it other than in accordance with the regulations and manufacturers instructions.

My bad indeed, but it shouldnt blow because of me!

 

[davethsparky]

You may have made the situation worse though, the extent of the damage may have been less if a 3A fuse had been provided.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

I am so confused! Anyone care to summarise, I have read the whole thread and I have a few questions...

Whats the electricians handbook?

Why wouldn't you put a 30p fuse on the boiler?

Was the faulty boiler why she wasn't paying you or was she not paying you for the Certs?

Surely you have a good hard copy of your quote so if she refused to pay you, you would have a argument in court?

What is an inspection camera? Sounds like I'm missing out on some reveloutionary technology here :-/

 

[Balarizaaf]

I am so confused! Anyone care to summarise, I have read the whole thread and I have a few questions...

Whats the electricians handbook?

Why wouldn't you put a 30p fuse on the boiler?

Was the faulty boiler why she wasn't paying you or was she not paying you for the Certs?

Surely you have a good hard copy of your quote so if she refused to pay you, you would have a argument in court?

What is an inspection camera? Sounds like I'm missing out on some reveloutionary technology here :-/

She didnt want pay because some1 told her all kitchen is gonna burn because of me so she took some other electrician for testing. The other electrician told her I am not allowed to charge her for testing and cert on my installation which I included in quote. Few days later we had a meeting and she said testings are fine, everything is ok, but boiler got broken and she was told its because of me as I put 13amp fuse in it... So yes, I was responsible for not ensuring its safety but it could brake with 3amp anyways + I didnt cause its faulty. So she payd me yesterday and everything is fine now.

 

[Guitarist]

Are you certain that a 3 amp fuse wouldn't have prevented whatever damage occurred? There is a good reason why 3 amps is stipulated in all manufacturers instructions.

 

[Balarizaaf]

Are you certain that a 3 amp fuse wouldn't have prevented whatever damage occurred? There is a good reason why 3 amps is stipulated in all manufacturers instructions.

It happens that I also fix washing machines, cathering service, laundrettes so with hand on my heart I can say that if a 100W pump would take 3amps, it would burn anyways....

BTw this inspection camera is awesome, it has light, HD quality and I paid only 60 quids for it!

 

[davethsparky]

You cannot say what would have happened with a 3A fuse instead of the 13A you fitted unless you can replicate the exact circumstances to test it.

And even then you have not fitted the fuse protection as directed by the manufacturer of the boiler so you could automatically become #1 scapegoat if no other reason for the fault can be found.

And by not following the manufacturers instructions you have not complied with BS7671, and unless you have noted this in the deviations on the certificate then you have not filled out the certificate correctly.

 

[richy3333]

The OP's grammar is not anything I have ever experienced in Scotland. Trust me most Scots can spell and punctuate correctly, guess he;s drunk too much of the orange stuff

A bizarre, confusing and illogical thread?!

 

[Guitarist]

The OP's grammar is not anything I have ever experienced in Scotland. Trust me most Scots can spell and punctuate correctly, guess he;s drunk too much of the orange stuff

A bizarre, confusing and illogical thread?!

I think the op is Polish. If that's the case, then it's pretty good.

 

[Balarizaaf]

I think the op is Polish. If that's the case, then it's pretty good.

Thanks, I didnt want to spoil the thread with the fact that I am foreigner:/ Sorry for bad punctuation but I am not good in using it so I dont do it at all... I am aware my posts are as easy to read as Hamlett's poem, but punctuation here is 180grades rotated to the one in my 2nd language;[ anyways, thanks for tip. Will pay more attention to it now!

 

[telectrix]

I think the op is Polish. If that's the case, then it's pretty good.

definitely foreign, from his name, but also definately not polish. more asian , IMO. ( no disrespect to OP , here, just speculating.)

 

[Guitarist]

definitely foreign, from his name, but also definately not polish. more asian , IMO. ( no disrespect to OP , here, just speculating.)

I think he said Polish in a previous post. But then, I think he also said that it was someone else using his account. It has been a pretty confusing thread tbh.

 

[Des 56]

My first view of this mammoth thread and my own conclusion, looking closely at his choice of words,many unlikely to be used in a second language written reply

It leaves me with the impression that he has done one excellent job of a wind up on a grand scale
He is no more Polish than I am