Two NICEIC installers failed to spot the lack of earth

[JosephandAmber]

Agent contacts me with an urgent request for a CU upgrade in Camden. They send over an EICR done the previous month and I have a quick skim. All seems pretty simple, CU needs an upgrade and some basic tidying of fixtures etc. Only 3 circuits so I'm not overly bothered about doing another EICR prior to doing the CU replacement.

Turn up to the property and within 10 mins I note there is no visible MET, nor is there any visible earth supply coming from the head. So I head inside and run some tests, again no earth. So I knock on the basement property and ask to test their installation, again no earth. Ok, so by this point I'm baffled by the lack of a main earth. So I called UKPN who send an engineer and he confirmed my fears, the property has never had an earth supply nor will they add one. As a result, he then issues all 4 flats with a Sec 26 ESQCR notice and turns off power to the entire building.

As you can imagine with 4 privately rented flats each with their own agents and landlords it kicks off. Turns out 2 of the 4 flats had EICRs completed within the past 3 months. One had a new CU installed. The property HAS NO EARTH!

Both EICRs were issued by NICEIC approved installers. Readings were recorded that could not have physically been taken. What is going on!?

 

[loz2754]

Fraud. Shocking how they get away with it.

 

[timhoward]

If they have been stupid enough to make up fake Ze readings, and they are legit CPS approved sparks, then I'd be writing a letter of complaint to the CPS. If you have the EICRs the contractors can be checked for membership online.
With UKPN's involvement it's an inarguable situation.
It makes my blood boil when people ostensibly vetted to the same level as me do things like this.

 

[JosephandAmber]

If they have been stupid enough to make up fake Ze readings, and they are legit CPS approved sparks, then I'd be writing a letter of complaint to the CPS. If you have the EICRs the contractors can be checked for membership online.
With UKPN's involvement it's an inarguable situation.
It makes my blood boil when people ostensibly vetted to the same level as me do things like this.

So I've just sent off a complaint to the NICEIC (they are listed as a domestic installer) concerning the EICR that was issued for the property I was working on. I've attached the EICR (Ze included) they issued and the UKPN notification that the property has no earth. I will update you when I get a response.

I am in the process of getting the details for the other property.

Btw NICEIC don't make it easy to complain, do they? Download and fill out a PDF that then has to be emailed to a specific address. Why not you know... just have an online complaints form?

 

[Mike Johnson]

What is preventing you making the system TT and allow the electricity to be turned back on for the benefit of the renters? It's what has to happen in the end anyway.

 

[JosephandAmber]

TT is exactly what they need to do, only I'm not getting involved as the politics of dealing with 4 landlords is too much faff for me.

 

[catdog1121]

Wow I hope those guys get chucked out of the cps but bet nothing happens, prob NICEIC will just say you need to complain direct to the contractors first, completely missing the point..

Bet you were popular when all the power got turned off..

 

[timhoward]

What is preventing you making the system TT and allow the electricity to be turned back on for the benefit of the renters? It's what has to happen in the end anyway.

Providing TT to flats can be a real pain. I would have expected UKPN to try and flog PME .

TT is exactly what they need to do, only I'm not getting involved as the politics of dealing with 4 landlords is too much faff for me.

Would you not at least sort the one you were originally changing a CU for?

 

[Mike Johnson]

TT is exactly what they need to do, only I'm not getting involved as the politics of dealing with 4 landlords is too much faff for me.

Only the same as dealing with four clients, and let's not forget getting paid four times.

Just looked up the Sec 26 Notice:

Who does the Esqcr Regulations 2002 apply to?
—(1) This regulation applies to distributors' low voltage networks in which the neutral and protective functions are combined.

Did you take a reading off the incoming sheath?

 

[cliffed]

Agent contacts me with an urgent request for a CU upgrade in Camden. They send over an EICR done the previous month and I have a quick skim. All seems pretty simple, CU needs an upgrade and some basic tidying of fixtures etc. Only 3 circuits so I'm not overly bothered about doing another EICR prior to doing the CU replacement.

Turn up to the property and within 10 mins I note there is no visible MET, nor is there any visible earth supply coming from the head. So I head inside and run some tests, again no earth. So I knock on the basement property and ask to test their installation, again no earth. Ok, so by this point I'm baffled by the lack of a main earth. So I called UKPN who send an engineer and he confirmed my fears, the property has never had an earth supply nor will they add one. As a result, he then issues all 4 flats with a Sec 26 ESQCR notice and turns off power to the entire building.

As you can imagine with 4 privately rented flats each with their own agents and landlords it kicks off. Turns out 2 of the 4 flats had EICRs completed within the past 3 months. One had a new CU installed. The property HAS NO EARTH!

Both EICRs were issued by NICEIC approved installers. Readings were recorded that could not have physically been taken. What is going on!?

That’s awful

 

[Dustydazzler]

Drive by EICR s

Easiest grand a day you will ever make

 

[Pretty Mouth]

It seems a bit of overkill to me, switching off the power to the whole building without notice, for a fault that has probably been there for decades. On the few occasions that I, or my clients, have reported defective earths, the DNO has been much more 'relaxed' in their response to it, usually dealing with it in a matter of weeks rather than days.

Were there any parallel paths via bonding etc?

 

[snowhead]

Drive by EICR s

Easiest grand a day you will ever make

So, we'll bring out Part P, that'll guarantee ALL installers are suitably qualified and the quality of installations improves over the subsequent years,,, FAIL

Next we'll bring out mandatory EICRs for Tennanted properties (possibly eventually leading to all properties just to make sure Part P is actually working) to absolutely guarantee that those properties are safe,, ANOTHER BIG FAIL.

What's next on the list, compulsory ENGTECH just make sure that EICRs are checking that Part P is working.??

 

[Dustydazzler]

It seems a bit of overkill to me, switching off the power to the whole building without notice, for a fault that has probably been there for decades. On the few occasions that I, or my clients, have reported defective earths, the DNO has been much more 'relaxed' in their response to it, usually dealing with it in a matter of weeks rather than days.

Were there any parallel paths via bonding etc?

I once waited 2 months for the DNO to come and sort out some old council flats that had no main earth to them.
These flats had been without any main earth for decades. The only bit of earth they were getting was from a bit of old 4mm twisted round the water pipe

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Now this will be an interesting thread to have updated @JosephandAmber
Do keep us posted. As soon as you get any updates you need to stop whatever you are doing, log on and update

 

[Dustydazzler]

So, we'll bring out Part P, that'll guarantee ALL installers are suitably qualified and the quality of installations improves over the subsequent years,,, FAIL

Next we'll bring out mandatory EICRs for Tennanted properties (possibly eventually leading to all properties just to make sure Part P is actually working) to absolutely guarantee that those properties are safe,, ANOTHER BIG FAIL.

What's next on the list, compulsory ENGTECH just make sure that EICRs are checking that Part P is working.??

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Part Pee is not working , the amount of dog Sh!t work I rectify that has been done by scam registered sparks pretty much keeps me in business these days.
Most recent a brand new kitchen wired up by a scam registered sparks , all nice new chrome switches and sockets. The lighting circuit has no cpc as it old and wired in twin yet they fitted 3 new chrome switches. several sockets the cables were all loose, and the cooker was connected with 15amp connector block in 1.5mm cable all thrown under the units. NICE

Old 3036 rewirable fuse box. I have quoted to rewire the lighting , re terminate the dodgy stuff and fit a new rcbo board.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Just looked up the Sec 26 Notice:

Who does the Esqcr Regulations 2002 apply to?
—(1) This regulation applies to distributors' low voltage networks in which the neutral and protective functions are combined.

Did you take a reading off the incoming sheath?

If indeed the quote above is correct, the regulation did not apply to the DNO that had not supplied the incoming with a neutral and protective function combined, ergo did they have the authority to turn off the supply due to issuing that notice.

Again I will ask the question did you take a reading off the incoming sheath?

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Part Pee is not working , the amount of dog Sh!t work I rectify that has been done by scam registered sparks pretty much keeps me in business these days.
Most recent a brand new kitchen wired up by a scam registered sparks , all nice new chrome switches and sockets. The lighting circuit has no cpc as it old and wired in twin yet they fitted 3 new chrome switches. several sockets the cables were all loose, and the cooker was connected with 15amp connector block in 1.5mm cable all thrown under the units. NICE

Old 3036 rewirable fuse box. I have quoted to rewire the lighting , re terminate the dodgy stuff and fit a new rcbo board.

Have to agree with the type of work you have stated there. I wonder if it is just kitchen fitters though, who have no proper understanding of the electrics, other than to make it work.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Have to agree with the type of work you have stated there. I wonder if it is just kitchen fitters though, who have no proper understanding of the electrics, other than to make it work.

Apparently the work was all 'checked' and 'signed off' by a CPS electrician on behalf of the kitchen company

I will be interested to see the paper work , if I get the rest of the work I have quoted for

 

[Lister1987]

Regulation 26 in full;
26.(1) Where a connection to a distributor's network has been made, or is proposed, and the distributor is not satisfied that the consumer's installation or other distributor's network or street electrical fixture which is or would be connected to his network is or would be so constructed, installed, protected and used or arranged for use so as to prevent, so far as is reasonably practicable, danger or interference with his or any other distributor's network, or with the supply to any consumer's installation or street electrical fixture, he may issue a notice in writing to the consumer or other distributor or owner of the street electrical fixture (as the case may be) requiring remedial works to be carried out within such reasonable period as may be specified in the notice.

(2) If the remedial works specified in the notice by the distributor are not carried out by the end of the period specified in the notice the distributor may disconnect or refuse to connect (as the case may be) the supply to the consumer's installation or other distributor's network or street electrical fixture, and in such an event the distributor shall by further notice in writing addressed to the consumer or other distributor or owner of the street electrical fixture (as the case may be) set out the reasons for the disconnection or refusal to connect.

(3) A distributor may disconnect the supply to the consumer's installation or other distributor's network or street electrical fixture without giving notice as required by paragraph (1) if such disconnection can be justified on grounds of safety, but in such an event the distributor shall by notice in writing addressed to the consumer or other distributor or owner of the street electrical fixture (as the case may be) and served as soon as reasonably practicable after the disconnection, give the reasons for such disconnection and if applicable details of any remedial measures required to be taken by the consumer or other distributor or owner of the street electrical fixture.

(4) The distributor shall connect or restore the supply when the stipulated remedial measures have been taken by the consumer or other distributor or owner of the street electrical fixture (as the case may be) to the reasonable satisfaction of the distributor, or if no remedial measures are required, as soon as is reasonably practicable after the grounds for disconnection have ceased to apply.

(5) Any dispute between the distributor and the consumer or other distributor or owner of the street electrical fixture (as the case may be), over the disconnection of or refusal to connect the consumer's installation or other distributor's network or street electrical fixture which cannot be resolved between them, may be referred by any of them to the Secretary of State who shall appoint a suitably qualified person to determine the dispute and to order as he thinks fit whether the costs (or any part of them) associated with the determination should be borne by one or other of the parties.

(6) Where a referral is made to the Secretary of State in accordance with paragraph (5) before the expiry of the notice period referred to in paragraph (1), the distributor shall not take any action pursuant to paragraph (2) until the determination of the dispute.
(7) Following the determination by the person appointed by the Secretary of State, the distributor shall maintain, connect, restore or may disconnect the supply as appropriate, subject to any conditions which the person appointed by the Secretary of State may stipulate in his determination.
(8) A copy of this regulation shall be endorsed upon or accompany every notice given by the distributor pursuant to this regulation.

It is likely the disconnection was made under 26(3) as this requires no such remedial action be considered. The DSO version of "its MY ball and I'm taking it home"

 

[snowhead]

It is likely the disconnection was made under 26(3) as this requires no such remedial action be considered. The DSO version of "its MY ball and I'm taking it home"

And before I bring my ball back out to play I'll want paying for the cost of reconnection and possibly the disconnection as well.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

It is likely the disconnection was made under 26(3) as this requires no such remedial action be considered. The DSO version of "its MY ball and I'm taking it home"

If there was danger present as a result of the fault, I could see their argument. But a missing earth is still 1 step away from danger. Seems to me that the knee-jerk disconnection of power could itself cause danger.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Conversely did they check to ensure that no one within those flats was going to be left vulnerable by switching off the electricity and having no lighting or heating?

 

[JosephandAmber]

Would you not at least sort the one you were originally changing a CU for?

The problem was that the front garden is owned by the basement flat who need to give permission to install the rod - which we've now had.

It seems a bit of overkill to me, switching off the power to the whole building without notice, for a fault that has probably been there for decades. On the few occasions that I, or my clients, have reported defective earths, the DNO has been much more 'relaxed' in their response to it, usually dealing with it in a matter of weeks rather than days.

Were there any parallel paths via bonding etc?

In the flat I was dealing with well... there was no bonding despite the EICR saying there was.

Only the same as dealing with four clients, and let's not forget getting paid four times.

Just looked up the Sec 26 Notice:

Who does the Esqcr Regulations 2002 apply to?
—(1) This regulation applies to distributors' low voltage networks in which the neutral and protective functions are combined.

Did you take a reading off the incoming sheath?

So to complicate things further the suppliers head had been boxed over meaning you couldn't get to the incoming cable. You could see however that it had no remains of a previous TN-S connection.

Now this will be an interesting thread to have updated @JosephandAmber
Do keep us posted. As soon as you get any updates you need to stop whatever you are doing, log on and update

Will do!

If there was danger present as a result of the fault, I could see their argument. But a missing earth is still 1 step away from danger. Seems to me that the knee-jerk disconnection of power could itself cause danger.

I think what made matters worse was it is clear the general installation was ancient. Only 1 of 4 flats had an RCD.

Conversely did they check to ensure that no one within those flats was going to be left vulnerable by switching off the electricity and having no lighting or heating?

So they knocked on all the doors and informed those who were in. Those who were not got a notice and a call to their landlord/agent. As it stands the tenants are in hotels.

After a lot of discussions, all landlords have got their act together and I have permission to install a TT system tomorrow morning. I'll connect the flat I was working on and then they can decide if they want me to do their connections. Although I will insist on an EICR at the same time since their existing EICRs are clearly worthless.

Will update once I hear from NICEIC!

 

[Mike Johnson]

How many supplies into the building, one or four?

 

[UNG]

Will update once I hear from NICEIC!

If there is not a positive / satisfactory outcome with the NICEIC this is one that really should be elevated to the UKAS complaints process

 

[pc1966]

It might be worth also reporting it to Trading Standards, see this thread:

Poor EICR report results in prosecution

I've just stumbled across the below elsewhere online, anyone aware of it? PRESS RELEASE: ELECTRICIAN’S GUILTY PLEA OVER REPORT SIGNING OFF UNSATISFACTORY ELECTRICS -- A Pembrokeshire electrician has pleaded guilty to supplying a report claiming the electrics in a household property were...

www.electriciansforums.net

 

[JosephandAmber]

So was back at the property today (yes, Sunday). Sunk an earth rod and got a reading of 14.2 which I must admit surprised me. Power is back on for the property I was working on. Two flats have turned the power back on themselves but want me to do an EICR and connect their earth. The fourth flat, well I've not heard anything from them yet and the tenant is currently staying in a hotel.

 

[JosephandAmber]

It might be worth also reporting it to Trading Standards, see this thread:

Poor EICR report results in prosecution

I've just stumbled across the below elsewhere online, anyone aware of it? PRESS RELEASE: ELECTRICIAN’S GUILTY PLEA OVER REPORT SIGNING OFF UNSATISFACTORY ELECTRICS -- A Pembrokeshire electrician has pleaded guilty to supplying a report claiming the electrics in a household property were...

www.electriciansforums.net

Just submitted to Camden council. Will see what happens. I suspect as I am not the property owner they are going to wiggle out of taking any action.

 

[brianmoooore]

Wow I hope those guys get chucked out of the cps but bet nothing happens, prob NICEIC will just say you need to complain direct to the contractors first, completely missing the point..

Doubt if even that will happen.
What should happen is that they are prosecuted for fraud and endangering of life, and imprisoned, but I won't hold my breath.
When 'Part P' was proposed, I said that the only difference will be that the monkeys out there will just become monkeys with a bit of paper in their hands. Won't make any difference to standards.
Looks like I've been proved wrong. Standards have dropped.

 

[JosephandAmber]

Quick update - trading standards have been in touch for more details. NICEIC has confirmed someone has been assigned to the case but I have yet to hear from them.

I forgot to mention this in my initial post - the flat that had recently had the CU upgrade had a new earth running from the flat all the way to the non-existent MET. The electrician had then just left the cable disconnected and energised the new CU. This property is managed by an agent who has insisted on sending the same electrician back to make good the job. I bumped into him and gave him an earful - he didn't have much to say other than straight-up lie. Unfortunatly I don't think the agent is going to share his details with me, nor did his van or CU have any branding on it.

So right now I'm going after the company that issued the fraudulent EICR for the flat I worked on.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The tenant will have details of the letting agent if you want that information to give to trading standards.

 

[pc1966]

As @Mike Johnson says you ought to get info from the tenants about the agents and then Trading Standards or even HSE can compel them to provide information on who did the work and registration status, etc.

It is not just dodgy electricians that are the issue, it is those landlords who use them when they almost certainly know better.

 

[nicebutdim]

I forgot to mention this in my initial post - the flat that had recently had the CU upgrade had a new earth running from the flat all the way to the non-existent MET. The electrician had then just left the cable disconnected and energised the new CU.

Not a single **** given. Takes a special sort of person to knowingly leave a property like that.

 

[Spaldingsparks]

Well done for being an honest electrician and No main earth to me is a code 1 requiring immediate rectification or disconnection.

I once went into a prayer house that had no earth and the people had removed their footwear bare floors and the walls had just been plastered a few days before. This was some time ago I put a neon screwdriver on the wall as they were complaining of electric shocks! that was no earth at all, my trusty neon lit up like a spotlight the walls were live I checked the MET and connected it all then ok. cowboys have been about a long time this was in the late 70s

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

So I've just sent off a complaint to the NICEIC (they are listed as a domestic installer) concerning the EICR that was issued for the property I was working on. I've attached the EICR (Ze included) they issued and the UKPN notification that the property has no earth. I will update you when I get a response.

I am in the process of getting the details for the other property.

Btw NICEIC don't make it easy to complain, do they? Download and fill out a PDF that then has to be emailed to a specific address. Why not you know... just have an online complaints form?

Unless they are approved for PRS - eicrs then the domestic installer scheme doesnt cover EICRS, so they may turn around out say its outside of the scope or the work they are approved for, nothing to do with us... however if they put the NICEIC logo on the certs or have been completely daft then you might find the NICEIC do take action as there has been a change of late where they do take action. if you say which area they are in somebody on here will likely know which assessor covers that area you might then get somewhere.

I would be more inclined to go to trading standards as its fraud and illegal trading etc... a spark recently got prosecuted and find for doing a drive by EICR on a house pre purchase. it was trading standards who took him to court

 

[JosephandAmber]

So I have a response from the NICEIC:

Good afternoon Mr XXXX,

Thank you for your email and bringing to our attention the condition report which was conducted by XXXX Services.

When it comes to complaints associated with EICR’s (Electrical Installation Condition Reports) our process is limited as to what action we can take. This is due to the fact that, as its title indicates, the document is a report and not a certificate.

It provides an assessment of the current in-service condition of an electrical installation against the requirements of the edition of BS 7671 current at the time of the inspection, irrespective of the age of the installation.

The report is primarily for the benefit of the person ordering the work and of persons subsequently involved in additional or remedial work, or further inspections. The report may be required for one or more of a variety of reasons, each of which may impose particular requirements or limitations on the inspection and testing.

As such, the engineer carrying out and producing the report will come to a conclusion based on their assessment of the installation, using their experience and knowledge.

Invariably, different engineers have different opinions of installations and their associated coding outcomes.

Where we see clear and obvious errors within an EICR and coding observations that do not reflect industry standard best practice guidance, we can investigate further and seek clarification from the contractor as to why certain coding’s and observations were used.

Please note, this may result in certain observations or coding’s receiving clarity from the contractor responsible for the report, however it may not change the technical outcome of the EICR and the report itself may remain as ‘unsatisfactory’ in terms of the overall assessment of the installation.

We will now review the EICR with our engineer and get back to you with clarity on the matter and advise you of the next steps we can proceed with.

When deciding on which contractor to use for an EICR, we recommend the use of a contractor who is registered with the NICEIC as an Approved Contractor, as undertaking and producing EICR’s form part of the contractors annual assessment process.

Contractors registered with the NICEIC as Domestic Installers are predominantly registered on this scheme to undertake work associated with Part P of The Building Regulation which covers work in domestic properties.

Private landlords in the rental sector should also refer to the new legislation which came into force on June 2020, detail of this legislation can be obtained in the link below

Guide for landlords: electrical safety standards in the private rented sector - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector

If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below.

 

[pc1966]

So basically you got a template reply and not anyone who actually read your complaint?

 

[timhoward]

So basically you got a template reply and not anyone who actually read your complaint?

It does at least say
"We will now review the EICR with our engineer and get back to you with clarity on the matter and advise you of the next steps we can proceed with."

I can imagine the phone call...
"Hello, it's Mr Cholmondley-Warner esq. here from NICEIC. Good afternoon. Thing is, we've had an enquiry about an EICR you did. How did you go about measuring the external earth loop impedance.... oh I see you did it by enquiry and the DNO said 0.35 ohms, ok, splendid, splendid. What about all the measured Zs readings then? Oh they were by calculation based on R1+R2 values. That's all fine and perfectly understandable then. Were you at all bothered about the complete lack of anything yellow and green near the cut-out? Oh you're colour blind and it was dark, yes that's completely understandable. Sorry to have bothered you, have a good day."

I've also known someone creatively claim the report related to a different property and was an admin mix up when I was asked to do remedials and found the entire report was fiction.

But these things aren't usually quite so black and white so this will be an interesting one to follow.

 

[UNG]

So I have a response from the NICEIC:

As such, the engineer carrying out and producing the report will come to a conclusion based on their assessment of the installation, using their experience and knowledge.

Invariably, different engineers have different opinions of installations and their associated coding outcomes.

Where we see clear and obvious errors within an EICR and coding observations that do not reflect industry standard best practice guidance, we can investigate further and seek clarification from the contractor as to why certain coding’s and observations were used.

Please note, this may result in certain observations or coding’s receiving clarity from the contractor responsible for the report, however it may not change the technical outcome of the EICR and the report itself may remain as ‘unsatisfactory’ in terms of the overall assessment of the installation.

We will now review the EICR with our engineer and get back to you with clarity on the matter and advise you of the next steps we can proceed with.

When deciding on which contractor to use for an EICR, we recommend the use of a contractor who is registered with the NICEIC as an Approved Contractor, as undertaking and producing EICR’s form part of the contractors annual assessment process.

How does the NICEIC assess the coding's and observations if there aren't any relating to the lack of any earthing on the installation

In cases like this it always annoys me that the DNO will not use it's weight and raise a complaint with the NICEIC

I'm now looking forward to the outcome of the review and how they can provide more clarity on something as serious as a total lack earthing on an installation

When deciding on which contractor to use for an EICR, we recommend the use of a contractor who is registered with the NICEIC as an Approved Contractor, as undertaking and producing EICR’s form part of the contractors annual assessment process.

And exactly how do the NICEIC assess a contractors ability to produce accurate and truthful EICR's as it is clearly failing somewhere

When it comes to dodgy and poor quality EICR's I do wonder how many there are out there with people believing they have a safe installation that complies with the regs, while most of what we see on here relates to domestic installations there must be just as many commercial installations in a similar state in fact just over 12 months ago I was asked to review a recent EICR on a local church (my wife is on the PCC) it had unswitched sockets down as a C2 for no means of isolation but had no mention of the state of the service head and the number or 951 clamps on the incoming cable for the main earths. I had the chance to review all the EICR's dating back to 2004 and they all had missed very obvious faults that would have lead to an unsatisfactory report had the inspection and test for each EICR been done correctly at the time and all of them done by NICEIC approved contractors so the failing EICR system has been around for a good while

 

[Lister1987]

And exactly how do the NICEIC assess a contractors ability to produce accurate and truthful EICR's as it is clearly failing somewhere

They don't, thry merely "authorise' to do them, all that is required is to cross a palm with silver and you're good.

 

[UNG]

They don't, thry merely "authorise' to do them, all that is required is to cross a palm with silver and you're good.

Which is the point I was making the NICEIC made what I think is a false statement in what I quoted from their response

 

[Teddy Lop]

So I've just sent off a complaint to the NICEIC (they are listed as a domestic installer) concerning the EICR that was issued for the property I was working on. I've attached the EICR (Ze included) they issued and the UKPN notification that the property has no earth. I will update you when I get a response.

I am in the process of getting the details for the other property.

Btw NICEIC don't make it easy to complain, do they? Download and fill out a PDF that then has to be emailed to a specific address. Why not you know... just have an online complaints form?

I first tried complaining to them about a members fantasies regarding installation particulars before there even was a part P and all that, didn't get far.

Its a peculiar dissonance between the a-ho assessor who seems to want to catch me out and school me every year and the response you get as joe public with a complaint. But yeah, there is TONS of drive-by false EICR's going on, and the way aforementioned assessor squirms and informs me that this is in fact some "variability" that needs "education" is pathetic.

BTW UKPN are terrible - took half a year to get them to attend site on an earth failure to a block of flats I had in hampstead, then the guy just PME'd it and waltzed off, no other checks of any kind. A more recent one they just point blank refused to come out until the client submitted an EICR, then the following day the earth mysteriously came back down from ~1.5 to 0.3 ohms! Ultimately though, the most you'll get from them is they'll replace their rotten 80 year old cable to the street (after you've done all the hard work installing duct for them) and charge you about 10 grand to sling a cable down it. And thats only if you're babysitting them and able to refute their "snags" that incur penalty cancellation charges and threats/attempts to leave client with no power...

 

[JosephandAmber]

Good morning Joseph,





Thank you for your email below.



I can confirm that we have forwarded through your complaint for an internal investigation against the contractor however due to confidentiality clauses with all memberships, we cannot provide the outcome of the investigation as some may affect a contractors membership.



If you have any questions please do not hesitate to contact me on the details below.



Kind regards, XXXX

Upon asking for an update with regards to my complaint this is what I received. What do we think my next steps should be?

 

[Mike Johnson]

Trading standards, possibly the tenant should also go to citizens advice to put the landlord on the line and find out the trading name of the electrician.

 

[pc1966]

I agree with @Mike Johnson as it seems the scheme is closing ranks and not doing anything about the issue. Trading standards don't have any membership fees confidentiality issues to hamper them in getting some redress for the original payers of the work.

 

[Markyd]

Had dealings with the NICEIC twice in the last six months about two installs done by two different tos$pots....They just dont want to know which makes them tos$pots also

 

[DefyG]

Why not you know... just have an online complaints form?

Laughable really as one of the items they check during an annual assessment is that you have procedures set up for dealing with complaints!

 

[Simon47]

Btw NICEIC don't make it easy to complain, do they?

Of course not - they don't want any complaints. What has become perfectly clear from this and many other threads is that they are interested in one thing only - collecting their membership fees.

 

[Dartlec]

Btw NICEIC don't make it easy to complain, do they? Download and fill out a PDF that then has to be emailed to a specific address. Why not you know... just have an online complaints form?

To be fair not sure that's just about avoiding complaints - their entire online system for their members is a mess of various things stuck together with packing tape from what I can tell whenever I try to find something.

They push us having complaints procedures and check that each year, but don't seem set up to deal with issues from third parties directly to them.

I have heard of them getting members back out to correct issues, but would be interested to know how many they actually cancel each year.

It's always a problem when you have private schemes that charge money for membership, as the incentive is not to lose their cash cow - and any bad press seems not to make enough impact on their bottom line to get them to do anything.

What should have happened was that electricians went towards some sort of CORGI like scheme, nationally registered with a single body, with proper independent oversight.

Then the entire industry could work together to improve standards across the board.... What a novel and completely idealistic idea!