What is happening today with all these COWBOY Electricians?

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I have read several posts on here now in the last half hour and all of which claim to be an electrician and got the very basics wrong or completely cant be bothered to do anything they have to!

These so called scheme providers really need to get off their A*** and start looking at who they are giving a licence to kill to before they kill someone!
 
Cowboy Electricians have always been a problem the issue now is they hold a bit of paper saying they are qualified due to the fast tracking and dumbing down of the system....
 
right i'm pausing tv and getting the beer out this could be a long thread... right that's me comfy, let it begin :26:
 
Just about to start reading the posts


Am I
(A) Going to find people looking for confirmation or other opinions and will be pleased to respond if possible
icon14.png



or

(B) Going to find people who may honestly believe they know what they are doing, yet post such stupid questions that my head starts shaking sideways and my mouth starts mumbling obscenities :rolleyes2:
 
I dont do domestic work so cant really comment but I would assume its narrowed down to these 2 factors:

1) Lack of proper apprenticeships.
2) Short courses in Electrical installation.

Regarding point 1 I see lots of apprenticeships in factories like the one I did but I hardly ever see one for domestic or small commercial positions.

Regarding point 2, I spent around 6 years in and out of college and still have much to learn, How people can be expected to learn a trade in a matter of days or weeks is beyond me.
 
Tiny Spark said:
2) Short courses in Electrical installation.
Click to expand...

Personally I don't blame the short courses, they have their purpose...

I do however, blame the providers who give people the impression that they're going to know it all at the end of the course...

I did a "short course" (after a LOT of research to make sure I wasn't ripped off) and was a bit bewildered by how many people thought that after a few weeks that was it and they could do the job.

Before going to the college I spent months reading up on my own about the fundamentals of electrics (everything from ohms law to the internal workings of an RCD) but was amazed at how little of it was actually covered on the domestic installers course. I asked a question about Adiabatic on the last day of the training and asides from the instructors no one had any idea what it was...
 
My own favourite today has been "Pizza Oven" for those not familiar with it a DI has been tasked with installing one, 3.3kw I think. Once it gets to a certain temperature the RCD trips. He wondered if replacing a 30ma RCD with a 100ma would solve his dilemma
 
You could always go one step further and replace with a 32A MCB. I think the term MCB sells it somewhat short. If you think about it the 32A MCB will trip if there's 32A of earth leakage so I'm sure you could get away with actually classing it as a 32000mA RCD.
 
Tiny Spark said:
I dont do domestic work so cant really comment but I would assume its narrowed down to these 2 factors:

1) Lack of proper apprenticeships.
2) Short courses in Electrical installation.

Regarding point 1 I see lots of apprenticeships in factories like the one I did but I hardly ever see one for domestic or small commercial positions.

Regarding point 2, I spent around 6 years in and out of college and still have much to learn, How people can be expected to learn a trade in a matter of days or weeks is beyond me.
Click to expand...

There are several apprenticeship's available for the Domestic Electrician, but sadly, very few jobs in that sector of the industry. If no one is employing, then no one can do.

Cheers............Howard
 
brizospark said:
I think it's the OP who is the cowboy.
Click to expand...


The OP put forward a valid point that has long been the bane of this industry .... the direction of the thread was started by myself amongst others so where does you comment come from..... we all can play nockadoor run but its better to back your opinion with a reason at least ....not saying your right or wrong but who knows if you don't tell us why?
 
SirKit Breaker said:
There are several apprenticeship's available for the Domestic Electrician, but sadly, very few jobs in that sector of the industry. If no one is employing, then no one can do.

Cheers............Howard
Click to expand...

Thats what I mean, From what I understand most apprentices are now taken on by colleges but dont actually have jobs.
More like the old YT schemes and the college trys to find them positions.

But obviously this is not so easy when people are not recruiting.

I was chatting to some contractors the other day about this and most of them said their companies will not take on apprentices even though they would be in a good position to do so.

Its a shame really.
 
Why spend money on an apprentice when there are 18 day courses to send someone on, followed by minimum wage "because they're lucky to have a job"?
It's more than a shame, it's a disgrace.
It's no wonder these inexperienced guys just "give it a go" in peoples' homes, and charge what they can get away with. Afterall, there's always a forum to fall back on....
Maybe the people who endorse the quick courses should employ these guys in their own homes.
 
Tim there was a youtube video publicised here a few weeks back from a training centre. The guy was singing the praises of his 5WWs so I asked him if he would be willing to have one of them working in his house.
Comments were disabled for the video about ten minutes later.
 
trev said:
Tim there was a youtube video publicised here a few weeks back from a training centre. The guy was singing the praises of his 5WWs so I asked him if he would be willing to have one of them working in his house.
Comments were disabled for the video about ten minutes later.
Click to expand...

I remember that trev. These newly trained guys sound fantastic, I have to say.
 
LeckyBill said:
Not all that have done short courses are cowboys, so just haven't got the time to spend two years at college
Click to expand...
None of us are saying that Bill. What we are saying is that some are kicked out of the training centres 5 weeks later and think they're qualified.
There are some "graduates" of these courses that realise they still need to learn a lot then go and make sure they know it, it's them who earn a bit of respect
 
LeckyBill said:
Not all that have done short courses are cowboys, so just haven't got the time to spend two years at college
Click to expand...

Not cowboys, just inexperienced in many cases and not skilled in the various areas needed to work in peoples' homes. How often do we have to carry out carpentry, chasing, plastering, board lifting, plus a host of other jobs essential to "just doing domestic"?
Every day is the answer.
 
Guitarist said:
Not cowboys, just inexperienced in many cases and not skilled in the various areas needed to work in peoples' homes. How often do we have to carry out carpentry, chasing, plastering, board lifting, plus a host of other jobs essential to "just doing domestic"?
Every day is the answer.
Click to expand...

it ain't rocket science like, ive always been good at diy so it came easy not all are as up on it
 
What you also have to take into consideration is the people who post questions on here some of witch are trying to improve themselves an standard of work, just think about the ones that don't even bother to research something they just don't care!
 
daveb1 said:
What you also have to take into consideration is the people who post questions on here some of witch are trying to improve themselves an standard of work, just think about the ones that don't even bother to research something they just don't care!
Click to expand...

Oh there's plenty come on here simply because of that.....they can't get it to work.
 
Just seen another MCB tripping on lights. Clearly LN fault and would rather post on here than get his b****y tester out of his van.
even if he ain't a spark how hard is it to disconnect all cables in 1 lighting point and see if that trips then work that way till they find the fault.

yes this is the cowboy way but there's another cowboy
 
Guitarist said:
Why spend money on an apprentice when there are 18 day courses to send someone on, followed by minimum wage "because they're lucky to have a job"?
It's more than a shame, it's a disgrace.
It's no wonder these inexperienced guys just "give it a go" in peoples' homes, and charge what they can get away with. Afterall, there's always a forum to fall back on....
Maybe the people who endorse the quick courses should employ these guys in their own homes.
Click to expand...
well...i was talking about this to the part p assessor today....
and he was in agreement that these 5 week courses should go....
 
Right then, well i'm almost ashamed to say it but i am one of these Electrical Trainee guy's.

About 6 years ago the job i was in was going nowhere so needed a new career path. Wanted to get a trade so i decided to do a 5 week course to get qualified. The course was OK i guess, it's the bit at the end where they tell you that you are qualified electrician and able to go out on your own! Not a chance, i'm glad i chose a different route. I chose to go out and work for an experienced electrician who needed an apprentice. Learnt more from him in the first few day's than i did from the entire course. Gained so much experience from the 4 & a bit years i worked with him and also went to college again for more training, also studying the reg's and understanding electricity. He also taught me a respect for the trade and to take pride in what i do.
It was an invaluable experience to be honest. Christ, if i'd have listened to the lot on my course and just went out and had a go i think it would have been a short lived job. I'm just glad i realized these courses are not really to up it, and they are ultimately not a safe way to train people, nothing beats good old experience and knowledge. I fully understand why most of you on here hate the Electrical Trainee lad's. You've done your time and have the knowledge but are getting priced out by the cheap as chips ex-kitchen fitter, who five weeks ago had never even used his shiny new tester.

I'm just saying that some people who do these courses don't think they know it all straight away and realize that they can use it to go on and better themselves and they're understanding. But on the flipside you will get the one's who just don't have a clue, start up on their own and before you know it they are bodging things and scarpering. If somebody asked me today how to go about getting into the trade i would tell em to avoid these courses like the plague. They enable vastly under qualified people to think they are electricians. When they aint.

Anyway's *tin hat firmly on*

Sorry to bore you all, and i'm aware this isn't the most well written post, woeful at explaining things lol
 
I have worked in electrical and electronic engineering for (on and off) 30 years. I passed my 2377 today and even though its Friday I am sat here chewing through 2382. Next week I have a Minor Works course and I all I ever intend to do is take an FCU off or replace a luminaire. I think you are only a cowboy if you have a paint horse. Oh no....I have a paint horse
 
Chris sparky said:
Right then, well i'm almost ashamed to say it but i am one of these Electrical Trainee guy's.

About 6 years ago the job i was in was going nowhere so needed a new career path. Wanted to get a trade so i decided to do a 5 week course to get qualified. The course was OK i guess, it's the bit at the end where they tell you that you are qualified electrician and able to go out on your own! Not a chance, i'm glad i chose a different route. I chose to go out and work for an experienced electrician who needed an apprentice. Learnt more from him in the first few day's than i did from the entire course. Gained so much experience from the 4 & a bit years i worked with him and also went to college again for more training, also studying the reg's and understanding electricity. He also taught me a respect for the trade and to take pride in what i do.
It was an invaluable experience to be honest. Christ, if i'd have listened to the lot on my course and just went out and had a go i think it would have been a short lived job. I'm just glad i realized these courses are not really to up it, and they are ultimately not a safe way to train people, nothing beats good old experience and knowledge. I fully understand why most of you on here hate the Electrical Trainee lad's. You've done your time and have the knowledge but are getting priced out by the cheap as chips ex-kitchen fitter, who five weeks ago had never even used his shiny new tester.

I'm just saying that some people who do these courses don't think they know it all straight away and realize that they can use it to go on and better themselves and they're understanding. But on the flipside you will get the one's who just don't have a clue, start up on their own and before you know it they are bodging things and scarpering. If somebody asked me today how to go about getting into the trade i would tell em to avoid these courses like the plague. They enable vastly under qualified people to think they are electricians. When they aint.

Anyway's *tin hat firmly on*

Sorry to bore you all, and i'm aware this isn't the most well written post, woeful at explaining things lol
Click to expand...

Nowt wrong with wot your sayin, as I sed some people havent got the time to do college for 2 years i doubt they teach your much more than an intensive course anyway
 
Chris sparky said:
Right then, well i'm almost ashamed to say it but i am one of these Electrical Trainee guy's.

About 6 years ago the job i was in was going nowhere so needed a new career path. Wanted to get a trade so i decided to do a 5 week course to get qualified. The course was OK i guess, it's the bit at the end where they tell you that you are qualified electrician and able to go out on your own! Not a chance, i'm glad i chose a different route. I chose to go out and work for an experienced electrician who needed an apprentice. Learnt more from him in the first few day's than i did from the entire course. Gained so much experience from the 4 & a bit years i worked with him and also went to college again for more training, also studying the reg's and understanding electricity. He also taught me a respect for the trade and to take pride in what i do.
It was an invaluable experience to be honest. Christ, if i'd have listened to the lot on my course and just went out and had a go i think it would have been a short lived job. I'm just glad i realized these courses are not really to up it, and they are ultimately not a safe way to train people, nothing beats good old experience and knowledge. I fully understand why most of you on here hate the Electrical Trainee lad's. You've done your time and have the knowledge but are getting priced out by the cheap as chips ex-kitchen fitter, who five weeks ago had never even used his shiny new tester.

I'm just saying that some people who do these courses don't think they know it all straight away and realize that they can use it to go on and better themselves and they're understanding. But on the flipside you will get the one's who just don't have a clue, start up on their own and before you know it they are bodging things and scarpering. If somebody asked me today how to go about getting into the trade i would tell em to avoid these courses like the plague. They enable vastly under qualified people to think they are electricians. When they aint.

Anyway's *tin hat firmly on*

Sorry to bore you all, and i'm aware this isn't the most well written post, woeful at explaining things lol
Click to expand...


thats the only way to do it imho through a college.

doing a similar thing atm, money is not great but the gaffer can keep us busy even if its not electrics so im happy for now till i gain more experience
 
I did a five week course a few years back just to be able to get a job I finally found one with an electrical engineer and as said before in other posts have learnt so much these last 6 years now I'm one year away from a degree in electrical engineering but my point is i had to do that course to Evan get a Job no one was willing to train me its a real shame no one takes on any apprentices any more but good news we have one now and I must say its bladdy hard work training a know it all 16 year old lad
 
LeckyBill said:
Nowt wrong with wot your sayin, as I sed some people havent got the time to do college for 2 years i doubt they teach your much more than an intensive course anyway
Click to expand...
If you think they can cram several years of study into a few days( because that's all that's spent on theory in Electrical Trainee school) then you're a fool.
 
Every website I visit seems to be sponsored by one of these 'change of career, become an electrician' companies these days.
Find it quite worrying what the future of this industry holds!
 
chrisg1979 said:
Every website I visit seems to be sponsored by one of these 'change of career, become an electrician' companies these days.
Find it quite worrying what the future of this industry holds!
Click to expand...

That will be google ads, linking adverts to your browsing history. Not a straight advert placement.
 
Dillb said:
chrisg1979 said:
Every website I visit seems to be sponsored by one of these 'change of career, become an electrician' companies these days.
Find it quite worrying what the future of this industry holds!
Click to expand...

That will be google ads, linking adverts to your browsing history. Not a straight advert placement.
Click to expand...

Ahh, that makes more sense. Glad the ads are electrical based and not scantily clad female based, the missus would start getting suspicious if that were the case (must cover my tracks well lol!)
 
Tiny Spark said:
What does Electrical Trainee stand for anyways?

5 week ? (Wonder?)
Click to expand...

Yep.

If ya kill someone after taking 5 week course you are going straight to jail.

Competency is classed as practical experience and qualifications.

After these 5 week courses they dont have any experience and very little knoledge of the systems. I did the full 2330 and still didnt cover a lot of stuff that firm does. Bms,plc,fire alarms,data etc
 
Disagree mate, if you kill someone it's you that's up in front of a court. The scams will have all kinds of caveats absolving them of responsibility
 
GLENNSPARK said:
time to go training unsupervised on the job though eh...
in someone elses property eh...
its a load of crap..
competent in 5 weeks...my arse...
Click to expand...

im sure my customers dont think the same your just like the electricians round here moaning coz they got no work like im flat out m8
 
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