Discuss 18th edition question in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
Not been on the 18th edition course yet.
In short what are the design changes I will need to implement come jan 1st on a domestic re-wire?
Insignificant ...
Not to the fire fighters...
He did say domestic
I was refering to the changes that save fire fighters lives in domestic properties.
Best you expand on that
Can't be bothered to... Read the changes.
Section 753 to read then
Are you a fireman?
Not been on the 18th edition course yet.
In short what are the design changes I will need to implement come jan 1st on a domestic re-wire?
521.10.202 is a very significant change which will require consideration to achieve compliance. I predict there will be an awful lot of non-compliant new builds and extensions during 2019, because many will just carry on as they always have.Insignificant ...
521.10.202 is a very significant change which will require consideration to achieve compliance. I predict there will be an awful lot of non-compliant new builds and extensions during 2019, because many will just carry on as they always have.
being a tight fist, i not got 18th book.can you paste that reg?521.10.202 is a very significant change which will require consideration to achieve compliance. I predict there will be an awful lot of non-compliant new builds and extensions during 2019, because many will just carry on as they always have.
Are you suggesting you will ignore this regulation?Hum ......... so in a finished domestic premises how would anyone know or check this?
Serious question BTW
Little is done now to check any existing BS 7671 compliance - so why focus in on this?
521.10.202being a tight fist, i not got 18th book.can you paste that reg?
I have been informed that a plasterboard ceiling is not considered to provide support for cables in the event of a fire, and that all wiring throughout its length will require support with (for example) steel straps, unless it is drawn through joist holes
There’s not many instances where a new build would be effected by this other than if trunking is used to house the cables to the DB or any detached garages with surface conduit drops for accessories inside.
Currently doing the 18th and this came from the tutor when we dissected the implication of the regulation. Got an NIC visit next month so will run it by him as well. But knowing how the IET interpret things it would not surprise me that plasterboard alone as a support would not meet the requirementsThe plasterboard comment is interesting... Who informed you of this?
The fire rating of plasterboard was raised during the discussion, but this was not considered to meet the requirement for supporting wiring systemsPlasterboard has a 30 minute fire rating from building regulations.
Check the Electrcial Safety First website to see if the questions of plastic plugs has been addressed in the faq section.
Are you suggesting you will ignore this regulation?
521.10.202
Wiring systems shall be supported such that they will not be liable to premature collapse in the event of a fire.
This is a blanket requirement, no distinction is given to areas of wiring or type of installation. I have been informed that a plasterboard ceiling is not considered to provide support for cables in the event of a fire, and that all wiring throughout its length will require support with (for example) steel straps, unless it is drawn through joist holes.
This will have implications for rewires where cables are often fished through areas where floors are difficult or impractical to lift for access.
If such cables were 'liable to premature collapse in the event of a fire'...then yes it would.Does that now over-rule a previous/current reg that cables could be laid, horizontally, unsupported in an inaccessible void?
How much vital information do you want? The regulation is very clear as far as I can see. Wiring systems must be installed to stay put and not collapse in the event of a fire. That clearly means they must be supported by fire resistant fixings to the structure of the buildingIf this is so important, why is the reg in the BBB lacking vital information ?
If such cables were 'liable to premature collapse in the event of a fire'...then yes it would.
Yes, the conduit would need to be secured with steel saddles to the side of the joistWould that apply to singles in PVC conduit laid between joists?
The fire rating of plasterboard was raised during the discussion, but this was not considered to meet the requirement for supporting wiring systems
Of course the plasterboard gives fire protection, upto 30 mins.Are you suggesting you will ignore this regulation?
521.10.202
Wiring systems shall be supported such that they will not be liable to premature collapse in the event of a fire.
This is a blanket requirement, no distinction is given to areas of wiring or type of installation. I have been informed that a plasterboard ceiling is not considered to provide support for cables in the event of a fire, and that all wiring throughout its length will require support with (for example) steel straps, unless it is drawn through joist holes.
This will have implications for rewires where cables are often fished through areas where floors are difficult or impractical to lift for access.
Hence my comment that the cables housed in the trunking will need metallic support against collapsePlastic trunking is not the issue here as it will melt in the fire. The idea is to stop entanglement of firefighters with the copper cables within the trunking.
How much vital information do you want? The regulation is very clear as far as I can see. Wiring systems must be installed to stay put and not collapse in the event of a fire. That clearly means they must be supported by fire resistant fixings to the structure of the building
Of course the plasterboard gives fire protection, upto 30 mins.
If it didn’t then we would have to regard the regulation regarding escape routes to domestic new builds currently to the 17th edition and provide metallic support above the plaster board ceiling in hallways to the exits which is completely unnecessary.
Never been pulled of an Niceic assessment on this.
Based on the information I have been given I think you are wrong, all of the guys on the course, including me took the same line s you regarding plasterboard, but the tutor insisted all wiring systems require support even if above a plasterboard ceiling. Plasterboard collapses during a fire, it may be the case that plastic water pipes will melt which will flood ceilings and cause collapse during a fire. The wiring above if not supported will collapse as well and not meet the requirements.Of course the plasterboard gives fire protection, upto 30 mins.
If it didn’t then we would have to regard the regulation regarding escape routes to domestic new builds currently to the 17th edition and provide metallic support above the plaster board ceiling in hallways to the exits which is completely unnecessary
Based on the information I have been given I think you are wrong, all of the guys on the course, including me took the same line regarding plasterboard, but the tutor insisted all wiring systems require support even if above a plasterboard ceiling. Plasterboard collapses during a fire, it may be the case that plastic water pipes will melt which will flood ceilings and cause collapse during a fire. The wiring above if not supported will collapse as well and not meet the requirements.
Funny but I think your tutor is wrongBased on the information I have been given I think you are wrong, all of the guys on the course, including me took the same line regarding plasterboard, but the tutor insisted all wiring systems require support even if above a plasterboard ceiling. Plasterboard collapses during a fire, it may be the case that plastic water pipes will melt which will flood ceilings and cause collapse during a fire. The wiring above if not supported will collapse as well and not meet the requirements.
How on earth would you fix cables running parallel between joists above a ceiling on a rewire or addition without major upheaval ?
All the above points were made on the course, I'm not arguing a case because I agree or don't agree, I'm simply telling you what I was told. And TBH I think the tutor is stating exactly what the guidance on this is likely to be. The IET do not take into consideration practicalities.
All the above points were made on the course, I'm not arguing a case because I agree or don't agree, I'm simply telling you what I was told. And TBH I think the tutor is stating exactly what the guidance on this is likely to be. The IET do not take into consideration practicalities.
Funnily enough this is almost word for word the objections raised on the course, however if you stop to think about what you have said you are suggesting the firefighters will give up and let the occupants die when ceilings collapse, they wont, and they don't need dangling wiring getting in their wayFunny but I think your tutor is wrong
By the time a plasterboard ceiling collapses then the house is pretty much done for
He must know more than most about the fire protection quality of plasterboard
Funnily enough this is almost word for word the objections raised on the course, however if you stop to think about what you have said you are suggesting the firefighters will give up and let the occupants die when ceilings collapse, they wont, and they don't need dangling wiring getting in their way
Funnily enough this is almost word for word the objections raised on the course, however if you stop to think about what you have said you are suggesting the firefighters will give up and let the occupants die when ceilings collapse, they wont, and they don't need dangling wiring getting in their way
I don't give a stuff what anyone else does mate, I'm simply stating my belief that what I was told on the course is correct and likely to be the guidance that will be issued in due course.You are projecting an opinion onto the forum that this un named tutor IS correct and we must all fall into line
Are you the tutor?
My mate down the pub says plasterboard is ok ....
I don't give a stuff what anyone else does mate, I'm simply stating my belief that what I was told on the course is correct.
Reply to 18th edition question in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
We get it, advertisements are annoying!
Sure, ad-blocking software does a great job at blocking ads, but it also blocks useful features of our website. For the best site experience please disable your AdBlocker.