Church Installation PVC? SWA? MICC? Mixed answers.

[somersetsparks]

Haha, i'm with sintra and bugsy, you boys stick with your pvc, i'd like more pyro to do, and well i'm at it more conduit, everything seems to be strut, tray, rack and armoured these days! or even worse non-continuous basket with nasty twin strung about everywere, tied to anything nearby!

 

[bugsy]

I dont think there is a bit on pyro anymore.


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Six week trainig courses, no pyro, lax policing of * electricians, what's becoming of what was once not just a trade but craft

 

[somersetsparks]

Apparently no pyro or conduit on AM2 now, according to some of our lads that did it recently!
I think this is narrow minded thinking really, everyone should have a good range of basic skills, even if they only do conduit at college. Mind you when I did mine a couple Years ago I had a quiet chuckle at some peoples conduit skills! (think 4 couplers in 5ft)

 

[Superspark23]

Im still to do my AM2 and they have changed the content in the past year, apparently they see the fabrication of conduit, pyro, tray ect.. level 2, because the AM2 is classed as Level 3 you dont need to do level 2 stuff. Im sure on site ill have to use conduit from time to time.

AM2 Topics include:
•
Isolation procedures – equipment, sequences, verification of single and three phase voltage.
•
Termination – steel wire armoured, point to point installation of wiring systems, SY and FP200
•
Protective conductors – main and supplementary bonding requirements
•
Lighting circuits – Two way and intermediate
•
Power circuits – single phase, final ring and radial and three phase and neutral
•
Inspection – good workmanship and visual inspection to BS7671 requirements.
•
Testing – test instruments, sequence, methods, verification of readings, continuity and insulation resistance, Zs, RCD etc.
•
Fault diagnosis – common circuit, and fault location techniques.
•
S Plan heating system

But comming back to Pyro, i did a little bit at college and once i found the knack to it i really enjoyed doing the stuff, and would love to work with it one day. Hopefully theres an electrician in norfolk that might let me go out on site with him so i can do some. Ive seen some installations that i just step back and admire. A real artform that will be lost soon

 

[Engineer54]

'' Im sure on site ill have to use conduit from time to time''

SuperSpark,

I'm pretty sure you'll be using Conduit ''Most'' of the time on any half decent project site!!!

 

[keith915]

I still use the good old fashioned T bar stripper and never have a problem.

I started off using the 'big screwdriver method'

 

[bugsy]

we used to have competions joy stipper vs, side cutters

 

[malcolmsanford]

Apparently no pyro or conduit on AM2 now, according to some of our lads that did it recently!
I think this is narrow minded thinking really, everyone should have a good range of basic skills, even if they only do conduit at college. Mind you when I did mine a couple Years ago I had a quiet chuckle at some peoples conduit skills! (think 4 couplers in 5ft)

Let's line up the domestic installers now, what a sad indictment on our industry that is.

we used to have competions joy stipper vs, side cutters

As a left hander never could use stripping tools, wasn't to bad with a T bar .................but side cutters, 12" / 18" tails for a DB stripped, potted, neoprined and meggered, yes meggered .............20 mins, would take me 20 days most likely now.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Everything we did in local authority establishments (ok,not churches but just making a point)..when I started...(late 70's through the 80's)...was either steel or pyro..(side cutters for me!).....we used to have to run 4.0mm pyro for a single socket!! Whats more everything was flush and we were expected to make good AND paint to match.
Sometime in the early 90's standards began to slip....I can remember going into a nick to do some repairs and being horrified to find another contractor had used plastic conduit...it was a slippery slope,before long surface trunking started to appear and the first T/E job was carried out.A few years previous anyone seen with a drum of t/E would never have worked for that local authority again.
Now at a big school I work at I am still saddened to see the standard of work that is accepted.....sticky trunking all over the place,mostly half hanging off,T/E everywhere,usually extended off the original pyro/steel provision.
Sorry,but the posters on here who dont like pyro and steel cos it's a bit harder and demands considerable skills dont know the meaning of the term "job satisfaction"....not their fault,it's the times we live in.

 

[Kings]

Thanks for the replies, the church is 1600 or older I've quoted for micc and conduit with singles which they seem to like the price and ease to rewire in conduit years to come but is this acceptable nobody seems to no?

 

[malcolmsanford]

If it's 1600 the chances are it will be a listed building. You will have to contact the local council and have a chat with them, they will most likely have a department that deals with listed or graded buildings. Also if i remember right the diocese also have an input into what is done, but that I may be wrong.

 

[Mr.Si]

I dont think there is a bit on pyro anymore.

I did MICC on my course and that was OLCI, so maybe there IS something good about that place lol.
We used Joy Strippers and I had a few goes - it's tough but then it was (and still is) new to me.

I guess with lots of practice, one can be properly good at installing it (I'd love to do more, just to get proficient in it).

I bet it takes AGES though, just like steel conduit... well, much longer.

 

[mogga]

Great to see the Quote you put in was met with thought or rewiring ect as for is it acceptable YES as churches are no differant to any building just that 2011 PVC twe doesnt blend in to the 1600 stone work as well as MICC and given the ornate carved items that will need routed round MICC would be my first choice ( Although Id subby the work to Sintra n Bugsy coz I couldnt make money as Im slower than a week in the jail makin off Pots )
The point of Apprenticeships is to train and give knowlage of the trade but now electricans are being dumbed down and a lot of the "OLD STUFF!" tray trunking conduit is being done by Mates or as some companys call them "Erectors" hence aprencitces hardly ever see Micc Never mind those who do arent given the time or instruction to allow them to learn how to do it correctly

 

[SMB]

Kings...

I would hope such a building was wired 'sympathetically'.

Hide all wiring where atall possible.

Where its not possible to hide the wiring then MICC would be the best way to 'blend-in' electrical requirements in a building which wasn't ment to incorperate wiring when it was originally erected. However, I bet there has been a fair amount of 'destruction' to parts of the building already due to past gas and electrical additions. Try to cause the least amount of damage to the building as you can (use previous cable runs / drilled holes where suitable).

Im very surprised you will not be dealing with 'English Heritage' and be getting some proper guidance in regard to whats required. This is our nations history your dealing with after all. I would make a few enquiries before you start this job. A phone call to 'English Heritage' wouldn't go a miss. This is the only number I have for them, but someone there will point you in the right direction of who to speak to.....02392 856 728.

I would love to be part of such a job.

Good luck with it and I hope it turns out to be a great installation.

All the best.


Edit.....

After a little more thinking ive come to the conclusion that if the wiring can not be seen then conduit is fine, but it mustn't be seen too much, in my opinion. (High-up in the roof etc would be okay I spose).

also......mechanically unprotected pvc/pvc, in positions which couldn't be seen, will probably end-up causing future problems due to vermin.

Rather than shiney metal-clad sockets / accessories (or god forbid white plastic ones), have a look at whats avaliable on the market, something more subtle, less obtrusive, less shiney.

Sympathetic to the building is the key here I think.

 

[SMB]

Buckle-clips anyone.....?

Laugh.

 

[Guest123]

All the FA jobs I've done recently in hospitals etc have been MICC.

Personally really enjoy working with it and standing back at the end appreciating it (sad I know)

 

[Sintra]

Not sad at all mate I do the same. Nothing wrong with admiring a piece of real craftsmanship.


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[ringer]

Just google-image searched 'Joy stripper' to see what you guys are on about. Mistake Tried 'Joi stripper' instead - a bit more relevant, but not much

 

[Andyfm]

If its a C of E church (and, I think Baptist churches), they have their own requirements and used to have their own "regs" book ( I had one given to me by a vicar 20 years ago), and they always wanted everything in pyro. Whether this is still the case though I`m not sure