Customer won't pay to correct dangerous wiring

[brennybig]

Asked to put a new 32amp cooker circuit into an old wylex 6 way board. Explained that I needed to split meter tails and install a new CU with RCD protection for cooker. Suggested a new CU for the whole house but customer unwilling to pay and insists on wiring new cooker circuit to old board which I am unwilling to do as no RCD protection. I am happy to walk away from the job but I noticed that there is a 5 socket radial circuit (2 sockets are in the kitchen) with 2.5mm cable except for the cable from the old wylex CU to the first socket which is only 1.5mm. Explained it had to be changed to a ring main with the correct cable and hence it will also need RCD protection. It is a dangerous setup and customer insists it has worked for years so unwilling to pay for corrective work. I can't just walk away and leave it unsafe! Do I just remove the 1.5mm cable between CU and first socket for safety reasons, upsetting the customer as the sockets will no longer work, or am I expected to do all the corrective work at my own expense by converting it to a ring main (without RCD)? I feel at present that I should remove the 1.5mm cable and tell the upset customer that he needs to get it properly repaired when he has the money. He is running a dishwasher, tumble drier and washing machine on these sockets at present!! Any thoughts?

Cheers

Brenny

 

[Hawk81]

Why does it have to be changed to a ring?

 

[brennybig]

I could just replace the 1.5mm cable with 2.5mm and run all sockets off a fused spur setup but given the three devices he already has connected it seems inappropriate.

Brenny

 

[Guest112]

if they wont pay you were never there...

 

[sxsparky]

if he wont pay its not your problem!

 

[Frontstep]

if they wont pay you were never there...

If the Job is reasonable and the price is reasonable and they don't want to pay record all and every detail including Photographs and leave.

 

[oldtimer]

I do not know what the bother is here you have been asked to put in a cooker circuit but customer does not want a new DB or RCD protection now if sockets are wired in 1.5 then best thing to do is say that he needs the whole installation checked out because he cannot keep adding on Add Hock you have done the right thing by highlighting the problem to him but he will see this as you trying to get yourself more work sadly because people do this we all get tarred with the same brush. So walk away I did with an alarm upgrade I gave a price and the return email was I am getting another quote then another mail was when can you start plus he was watching to see if I was going to take some of the old equipment away but that did not happen

 

[colshaws]

Issue a dangerous condition notification , leave a copy with the customer and get them to sign it (if they will) at least that way your covered. And then walk away.

 

[oldtimer]

Issue a dangerous condition notification , leave a copy with the customer and get them to sign it (if they will) at least that way your covered. And then walk away.

Hold on there is no legal obligation for him to "issue" a DCO and the customer is not obliged to sign anything as he has not done any work for them he can only highlight his findings in writing and then its up to the customer. I am not trying to have a pop here but we do not have the same degree of authority as the GASAFE guys with regards to issueing notices best thing he can do is highlight his finding and walk away because it could backfire on him ie accusations of interferance intimidation to get more work done and then he could be labelled as being aggressive

 

[telectrix]

agree^^^. put your concerns in writing and send it to him recorded delivery. that way, you've covered yourself and the ball's in his court ( not you in court )

 

[Spazz]

Issue them a danger notice and you have covered your back, just fill it in and post recorded delivery then get a copy of the proof of delivery and that will be accepted as received.

They can do as they please then - the last thing you want to do is the house catches fire because they use a bigger current draw, and cable overheats and a fire is caused as a result, as all they will say is I had a sparky the other day come over and he said I didnt need to do anything to it - at least with a danger notice issued you have covered your back - even if you email it and get proof pr delivery request on it, you would have covered yourself.

We can only advise, its their house they are putting at risk, we are not the LABC or HSE, we cant make anyone do anything!


To be honest the home owner was possibly thinking here is another rip off sparky trying to get me to do extra work when I dont really need it - even if she really needed it - she/he does not know.


If you are that concerned send a copy of said notice to LABC and let them deal with it - its out of your hands!


Dont forget with DCOs the customer has a right to refuse to sign it and accept it - so t get over this post it recorded delivery with no markings its your company (in a sealed envelope) and bang you got your signature, just staple it to the DCO.

 

[brennybig]

Thanks for all your advice. I will state my concerns in an e-mail and walk away.

Cheers

Brenny

 

[overskilled]

Just my 2p, feel free to disagree
See situations like this really needs something like an electrical version of gassafe brought in (with better oversight, don't know how good gassafe is, but have seen some real cowboys who were corgi registered in the past) or a requirement for regular inspections from someone who doesn't do the remedial work to assure impartiality (in theory at least)
Our system is a mess, no way to force it to be remedied, too many willing to look the other way as "we've done it that way for years" or "the customer doesn't want to pay for it to be done right" "the customer wants it done this way, who am I to argue?"
I'd be happy with a system of required inspections say backed by the insurance industry - "no electrical safety cert, no policy pay out" which would persuade many to make sure it was done. The issue is making sure shonky certs don't get issued, which could be a real sticking point.
What do others think?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Before you rush off and do anything.
What is the rating of the CPD, and what is the installation method of the 1.5mm² cable?

 

[rich.250]

Have you done a cable call to prove the 1.5mm is under sized?
Don't want to make yourself look silly

 

[rich.250]

Sorry *calc

 

[needasparks]

Does seem like the main install is getting bogged down with issues, from the OP he was asked to install a cooker supply, ok there may be other things wrong but the main point is the client was not willing to have the cooker installed correctly so end of story, walk away ! There could be hundreds of things wrong in the installation and yes while your there you can point these out but you know they are not using you for the works so recommend an inspection, there it ends.
You have done no work there so you dont need to issue anything, yes if you feel the need to put your findings in writing do so but you have no come back either way and the client already knows, you told them, and from what you say, they are not bothered.

I don't understand the need to issue a danger notice for everything we see. We are not the police, it is not dangerous and only has the potential to be dangerous if overloaded. These certs must only be issued for real danger.

 

[Spudnik]

Electricity is seen as an "essential service" which gas isn't therefore it cannot be just cut off. It's the same with water.

 

[wildgoose]

telectrix said: agree^^^. put your concerns in writing and send it to him recorded delivery. that way, you've covered yourself and the ball's in his court ( not you in court )

Quicker, cheaper and just as legally binding if the customer gets an email.

He would need acknowledge receipt of the message though!!

 

[Kevin01]

This is definetly the best answer well written needasparks.