D.I.Y. REWIRE-- A Step By Step Guide.

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Discuss D.I.Y. REWIRE-- A Step By Step Guide. in the Australia area at ElectriciansForums.net

that is with my over 60 card. wow started this thread as a bit of a humourous dig at DIY and now reached 100 posts jeez.
 
GLENNSPARK said:
No probs mate...Thing with me is i hate seeing s**t work (not implying anything towards your work) But crap we come across when out working:real yul brynner stuff some of it......take a look through the archives on this forum....plenty of pictorial evidence to choose from (it would be funny if it wernt damn right dangerous some of it)...........
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Sorry, but I won't stand for anyone insulting Yul, he was always an exemplary 'Cowboy' figure. Now don't get me started with Glen Ford or Gary Cooper... NOW they were terrible cowboys!!!
 
Sorry about the "power devil" thing tel: wasn`t implying you would entertain that crap...aeg are good stuff but didn`t think the orange sheds sold stuff that high up the quality ladder mate..........
 
millwall ken said:
Sorry, but I won't stand for anyone insulting Yul, he was always an exemplary 'Cowboy' figure. Now don't get me started with Glen Ford or Gary Cooper... NOW they were terrible cowboys!!!
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Thought he was insulting all bald sparks Ken, Magnificent 7, great film, but of course the only true cowboy was John Wayne, the only one who could ride his horse while dragging both feet along the ground, ( think they gave him small horses to make him look bigger )
 
GLENNSPARK said:
Sorry about the "power devil" thing tel: wasn`t implying you would entertain that crap...aeg are good stuff but didn`t think the orange sheds sold stuff that high up the quality ladder mate..........
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no prob. made me smile. sometimes the big O has good gear, this AEG ain't in the league of dewalt, but with LiIon battery (only 1 i'm afraid) but also witha 100 piece drill bit set all for £71.
 
Nice n easy arnt they micky...light weight but plenty of power: in fact i dont use the rattler too often as they dont take prisoners regarding smaller screws or those crap quality ones that sometimes come with fittings....in the bin with them.........
 
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the screws that come with fittings usually have a head that only martian screwdrivers will fit anyway.
 
GLENNSPARK said:
We use those 10.8V li-ion makitas tel....my boss got a kit with the drill and the rattler in it,2 batterys and charger=£135 which aint bad.....cant fault em......
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never seen them. what are they like drilling brick?
 
There an impact driver and a drill/driver tel (no percussion action) but believe me mate.....you wont beat em for all day working and the li-ion batterys are great. If you are hitting eng brick or ruabon then only a rotary hammer for me..........they will drive straight into thermalite (no plug) and dont sniff at 10 gauge long screws...well worth 135 quid.......
 
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mickys86 said:
I have to say. This is quite ironic coming from you lol. You told everybody that it's wrong of them to presume you incompetent and yet you you done exactly that to this customer and employee just because they've used the wrong terminology.
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Big difference between asking for technical advise / interpretation of regulations on a forum such as this one (or even in person in a store) and turning up in a DIY store and asking "How do I install a new consumer unit" ..

Had the customer question been something like "I'm not sure what rating of MCB (or even "breaker switch" ;)) to use for X" then it's a little different but "I want to replace my fuse box, how do i do that" or words to that effect is a little different imho (e.g. asking for advice/clarification vs a step by step how-to / where do i start...)
 
rsmck said:
Big difference between asking for technical advise / interpretation of regulations on a forum such as this one (or even in person in a store) and turning up in a DIY store and asking "How do I install a new consumer unit" ..

Had the customer question been something like "I'm not sure what rating of MCB (or even "breaker switch" ;)) to use for X" then it's a little different but "I want to replace my fuse box, how do i do that" or words to that effect is a little different imho (e.g. asking for advice/clarification vs a step by step how-to / where do i start...)
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i think that now you have become so addicted to this forum, you;ll never get your rewire completed. LOL.:smile5:
 
Saying that tel...members of my family are saying that i am in here too often but i dont care.....this forum is good reinforcement to the stuff they teach you at college..............
 
telectrix said:
i think that now you have become so addicted to this forum, you;ll never get your rewire completed. LOL.:smile5:
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Haha, it's hours of entertainment - and i've already made a few useful contacts through it :)

Regarding the rewire (dare I mention it)... I'm waiting for a kitchen to appear at the weekend, get all that connected, then the ground floor is finished except for the lounge sockets... the lounge is currently powered by an extension from the hall.. Main reason for this is my better half keeps changing the layout of the room and preferred positions of outlets.

Upstairs (sockets and lighting (including 5A outlets) was completed (and tested) some time ago)

Oh and the garage, but that's another issue and for now will stay on the existing DB in the basement which at least now is connected to the main consumer unit with a 6mm cable and an appropriate MCB and RCD as opposed to previously (1.5mm VIR from a 30amp rewirable fuse)
 
GLENNSPARK said:
Sorry about the "power devil" thing tel: wasn`t implying you would entertain that crap...aeg are good stuff but didn`t think the orange sheds sold stuff that high up the quality ladder mate..........
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I think you may find that all manufacturers have a product line that is built 'cheaper' specifically for the DIY stores, to sell cheap.

I bought my petrol lawn mower (!) from a proper machine store, yes, the sheds had cheaper, but they felt a lot cheaper using less quality products.
 
Rsmck.

I wasn't having a go. Thats old news. I was just pointing out that it was a bit ironic that the story was posted by u. Can we be friends? Lol

I actually believe that some of the things you will do could (notice I said could) be actually be better that some ( notice I said some) sparks

You've read the regs whereas some sparks probably haven't even bothered!

And the can of worms have been opened...... Again! Lol
 
mickys86 said:
I wasn't having a go. Thats old news. I was just pointing out that it was a bit ironic that the story was posted by u. Can we be friends? Lol
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Of course - would be handy to have more electricians I can count as friends :)

I actually believe that some of the things you will do could (notice I said could) be actually be better that some ( notice I said some) sparks
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And I agree 100% (to both the "somes") - I know fine well that many (most?) sparks out there could do the job quicker and probably better than I could ... but as long as the finished result is safe and works as I need it to I'm happy (note I said "safe" first too, intentionally :p)

Besides I've got some unusual (over the top perhaps) aspects of this installation - particularly the lighting :)

You've read the regs whereas some sparks probably haven't even bothered!
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You only have to look around this forum to see some of the interesting things you (proper) sparks encounter day-to-day that clearly were done by "electricians" - I dread to think what's out there (not just by Mr DIY but also by SOME electricians, present company excepted of course)
 
rsmck said:
you (proper) sparks encounter day-to-day that clearly were done by "electricians" - I dread to think what's out there (not just by Mr DIY but also by SOME electricians, present company excepted of course)
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Which reminds me..... My sisters bathroom lights need re wiring! :) lol
 
rsmck said:
I somehow thought this wasn't going to be a 'helpful' thread...

The attitude that no-one other than an electrician is capable of rewiring a house, installing a new circuit, adding an outlet to an existing ring final circuit, changing a light fitting etc is not helpful. DIYers coming here and asking questions are doing one thing right for starters - they accept they *don't* know exactly what to do and for that reason are asking advice.

My view is that you can dismiss these people with 'call an electrician' and, in many cases, they'll try and undertake the work themselves anyway.. or you can offer guidance and advice.

Teach a man to fish and all that...
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Strongly agree
 
rsmck said:
I somehow thought this wasn't going to be a 'helpful' thread...

Whilst I accept there are a lot of botched and potentially dangerous DIY jobs around there are also people perfectly capable of rewiring safely and legally in compliance with the relevant regulations.

As some of those reading this will know I have recently started a DIY rewire of my own, this is being done in compliance with relevant regulations and I really appreciate the advice and assistance offered by forum members, here and elsewhere both in the public forum and outwith it.

The attitude that no-one other than an electrician is capable of rewiring a house, installing a new circuit, adding an outlet to an existing ring final circuit, changing a light fitting etc is not helpful. DIYers coming here and asking questions are doing one thing right for starters - they accept they *don't* know exactly what to do and for that reason are asking advice.

My view is that you can dismiss these people with 'call an electrician' and, in many cases, they'll try and undertake the work themselves anyway.. or you can offer guidance and advice.

Teach a man to fish and all that...
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The problem is that rewiring a house is not quite the same as replacing a light or adding a socket, and there's a huge danger with people attempting to learn what they need to know by asking questions on an internet forum, because they will only ask about the things they realise they don't know. Subjects where they know nothing and don't even know they know nothing because they have no idea that the subject even exists they won't ask about - the old unknown unknowns problem.

IMO people shouldn't even wire up a light switch on the basis of following instructions to insert-this-wire-in-that-hole without genuinely understanding why and how it all works.

So yes DIYers can of course do a complete rewire, but to do so they have to know how to do all of the things involved - how to size circuits, how to calculate voltage drop, how to calculate cable current carrying capacities, how to calculate fault loop resistances, how to choose CPDs, how to route, join, and support cables... the list goes on and on.

They also have to know how to do, and to be able to actually do, full testing before and after energising.

No reason why anybody can't learn all of that, but it's hard to see how someone could do so just by just asking questions about things they think they need to know.

There are useful questions - but to be asked of the person wanting to do something as major as rewire a house or replace a CU, and they really should be able to answer them all positively.

I'd appreciate anybody's comments:
  • For a circuit to supply a given load, how would you go about deciding what cable and protective device to use?

  • Do you know which circuits can be ring finals and which cannot, and what the advantages and disadvantages of each are?

  • Do you know what the two main lighting circuit topologies are, and what the advantages and disadvantages of each are?

  • How do you calculate maximum demand and how can diversity be used?

  • What are the 3 different types of domestic single-phase supplies provided in this country, how would you recognise them, and what differences do each make to the requirements for the rest of the installation, particularly any outdoor supplies?

  • Can you correctly identify all components and connections of a circuit by method of testing or otherwise? In doing so can you identify or recognise anything wrong or dangerous with the circuit?

  • Do you understand how the way in which you install cables affects how much current they can carry?

  • What are the rules concerning cables concealed in walls, partitions and under floors?

  • What are the rules for cables run outdoors, buried in the ground or overhead?

  • Where cables need to be joined, how should this be done / not be done and in what circumstances are different methods acceptable?

  • Can you identify extraneous conductive parts, and do you know the requirements for main and supplementary bonding of them?

  • Which circuits should be RCD protected?

  • How do you propose to isolate your supply so that you can connect up your new CU?

  • Do you know what tests you would carry out on the installation - what sequence you'd do them in and at what point you would energise the installation, and for each test do you know what is being measured, why it is important, how you would carry out the test, and with what equipment, and what sort of results you would expect to get if everything was OK?
By all means teach a man to fish, but be aware you may also need to teach him how to navigate and how to sail.
 
telectrix said:
1. Remove all heavy furniture from upstairs. Place in Storage.

2. Roll up all upstairs carpets. Ditto.

3. Lift floorboards to enable cable routing (not the ones that the plumber has wrecked, fitting central heating)

4. Move all downstairs furniture to centre of rooms and cover with dust sheets.

5. Cover all ground floor carpets with polythene sheeting.

6. Chase out from ground floor ceiling vertically to every point you require a fitting/accessory.

7. Now that you've realised that you are totally out of your depth, get on the phone to a qualified Sparks.
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8. keep comming out with -- was'nt me
 
paul.m said:
Ban all sheds, well put.
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Yes agreed,well put
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"Sell and bash" being an anagram of Ban all sheds could be B+Qs motto to the Diy rewirer
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bugsy said:
How the hell can rsmck be a senior member on an electrical forum and be a diy,er
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Post count ... but I generally would only assume people with the "Electricians Arms Member" status are guaranteed to be electricians

Oh and (unrelated to your own comments), I completely agree with ban-all-sheds above - In my case, I appreciate not every "DIY-er" is the same, I didn't just dive in and start connecting cables together. In my case;

Cables are appropriate sized (taking into account how their ran, e.g. clipped directly in open space or through insulation etc) and with appropriate protective devices.

There are no ring finals in my installation, this is a personal preference. I did consider it for the kitchen sockets.

My lighting circuits are a bit unusual - upstairs is conventional loop in (with the addition of 5A outlets) downstairs each light fitting (or 5A socket) goes back, individually, to a central dimmer

My supply is TN-S, at present the garage etc hasn't been rewired so the existing (inadequate imho) supply to the garage has been connected through a 30mA 20A RCBO. At some point in the near future this will be looked at and the cable connecting the garage replaced (it using the existing cable until then) - at this point I'll brush up on the exact requirements for outdoor sockets and how my supply type affects them :)

All cables concealed in walls are in safe zones and protected by an RCD, the only thing NOT protected by an RCD is the supply (surface mounted) to the Fridge/Freezer

Where cables are joined this has been done with maintenance free junction boxes (and WAGO connections). These are, despite being maintenance free, all easily accessible from the attic space and basement.

As the RCDs comply with the automatic disconnection requirements then supplementary bonding is not required. The main equipotential earth bond was replaced with 16mm when I replaced the consumer unit.

Appropriate testing is being done and the results recorded, albeit mainly for my own reference and reassurance since there's no point in me producing an installation certificate ;), using a Fluke 1652B meter.
 
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opinion based your your last post with regards to testing, calibration and general approach I (in my opinion ) would not class you as a general DIY er however other slightly informed ( a little knoledge is dangerous ) DIYers may not take the same approach and therfore in my humble opinion still think that any electrical work should be carried out by professionals , I would however like to point out that should you have a problem with the installation or an unexplainable fire your home insurance will be void
 
bugsy said:
opinion based your your last post with regards to testing, calibration and general approach I (in my opinion ) would not class you as a general DIYer
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Thank you

I would however like to point out that should you have a problem with the installation or an unexplainable fire your home insurance will be void
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Much as I expect this is very unlikely, I did confirm before starting this project that my insurance company had no issue with it based on something similar someone else had said. Their opinion is that as long as the work is carried out to the current building regulations whether or not it is done by a 'qualified' person is irrelevant.

Obviously the situation may be different in England where different Building Regulations (e.g. Part P etc) apply or with different insurance companies. Indeed my understanding is that Part P pretty much prevents a full rewire being carried out without notifying the local authority and being qualified and a scheme member (or having the installation inspected) - although I don't pretend to be too knowledgeable on Part P as it is not applicable where I live.
 
Don't you have to do a periodic inspection on a whole house if your doing a rewire or partial rewire ?
were i work we test before and after any rewire full, bathroom or kitchen
can anyone confirm this ?
 
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