For new sparks who change dist boards

[MDJ]

I have spent 2 days in total doing an EICR on these boards, I won't give away too much info in this first post, I would like you new sparks who go around peoples houses changing dist boards to let me know if you think this needs ripping out and replacing? if so what is your reasons and what questions do you think you would need to ask me before making your decision?

 

[Silly Sausage]

C1 the whole lot with all that exposed Cu work.

 

[High Tower]

Can I play?

 

[MDJ]

Of course Hightower, however some new part p sparks may like an opinion and may want to ask some questions

 

[High Tower]

Well I'd give your photography skills a C2!

 

[MDJ]

Well I'd give your photography skills a C2!

well it was done with a tea in one hand and done with an Iphone, pretty cool pics I think, I suppose I could have got in closer, what am I a po*n shoot photographer lol

 

[Knobhead]

This could get interesting.

It's not my first house, I fitted two 8 way Wylex boards.

 

[High Tower]

a few factors would decide if I would recommend replacement .........

Is the backboard or frame of any of the 3036's made of a combustible material

How do the retro MCB's fit and interface with the existing board and do the cause any exposed parts

How does the cover fit and the subsequent fuse cover fit with these in place, as if both don't fit then this contravenes manufactures instructions

Is there any sign of over heating on with the carriers, busbar or blades

Is the existing installation suitable for the loads and the size of cables and total demand

The possible lack of a single point of isolation

The reason for the test and the expectations of the client, ( some of the tests I do are required to have a clean sheet)

Measured Zs readings and their relation to the fitted protective devices and their disconnection times

The earthing arrangements, this is a Tn system but a TT would require replacement.

That's just a few to start and is not ment to be exhaustive as I'm walking round morrisons ATM lol

 

[MDJ]

This could get interesting.

It's not my first house, I fitted two 8 way Wylex boards.

Yes it could, it is the sort of thread which could split the forum, thats why I posted it, the mods may have to watch this if it starts getting questions regarding it

 

[MDJ]

a few factors would decide if I would recommend replacement .........

Is the backboard or frame of any of the 3036's made of a combustible material

How do the retro MCB's fit and interface with the existing board and do the cause any exposed parts

How does the cover fit and the subsequent fuse cover fit with these in place, as if both don't fit then this contravenes manufactures instructions

Is there any sign of over heating on with the carriers, busbar or blades

Is the existing installation suitable for the loads and the size of cables and total demand

The possible lack of a single point of isolation

The reason for the test and the expectations of the client, ( some of the tests I do are required to have a clean sheet)

Measured Zs readings and their relation to the fitted protective devices and their disconnection times

The earthing arrangements, this is a Tn system but a TT would require replacement.

That's just a few to start and is not ment to be exhaustive as I'm walking round morrisons ATM lol

Good questions. ZE is 0.20 for clarity to start with, all zs readings within what they should be, no evidence at all of any overheating, when the covers are on, no exposed parts evident, definately a TNCS system, dist board backs are wooden, however fire proof foam is between ceiling and wooden frame boards are sat on, all sockets down stairs covered by RCD, thats all of your questions answered I believe fella

 

[MDJ]

Forgot to mention, Boards are in the garage which is part of the house and the ceilings are all fireproofed with fire boards.

 

[High Tower]

Single point of isolation?

 

[MDJ]

No single point of isolation

 

[danzor]

Would be fun trying to get access to the moulded box

 

[MDJ]

Would be fun trying to get access to the moulded box

the moulded box is easily accessed if you remove the Dist board cover below it.

 

[High Tower]

No single point of isolation

Would personally have issue with that, and the wooden backboards due to there being no integral backs in those boards, don't think it would be enough to recommend replacement, I might suggest it as an improvement rather than a necessity

 

[MDJ]

Would personally have issue with that, and the wooden backboards due to there being no integral backs in those boards, don't think it would be enough to recommend replacement, I might suggest it as an improvement rather than a necessity

Good view, I might agree, I might not, lets see what the others say first, I have to shoot off now for an hour, but will be happy to pm you my findings when I get back if you want to know what I think.

 

[Badged01]

A snakes nest of wiring! Before I say anything are my eyes working correctly:

1) The service head feeds the meter
2) Meter then feeds a henley block
3) Henley then feeds two '3036' boards and a single '3036' board.
4) The R/H '3036' board then feeds an 'RCD' enclosure

 

[telectrix]

that is totally illegal and dangerous. it's just a question of whether you will be electrocuted or your house burns down. the whole house needs a complete rewire for which we will be happy to quote.


looking after your world (NOT).

yours greedily,

British Gas.

 

[danzor]

the moulded box is easily accessed if you remove the Dist board cover below it.

The DB cover? The cover is off it and you can't even see one of the screw holes. Could be the angle of the photo though.

 

[Knobhead]

Any of the members you’ve aimed this at Mike will err on the side of caution.

Could I suggest the moderators keep out of the discussion unless it gets fractious, obviously something would have to be done then.

How does the cover fit and the subsequent fuse cover fit with these in place, as if both don't fit then this contravenes manufactures instructions

Just to answer that one question the covers were designed with a central knock out to accommodate plug in MCB’s. Try to knock it out and you would end up with a broken cover as I found out. It was far better to cut it following the line of the knock out.

 

[High Tower]

Any of the members you’ve aimed this at Mike will err on the side of caution.

Could I suggest the moderators keep out of the discussion unless it gets fractious, obviously something would have to be done then.



Just to answer that one question the covers were designed with a central knock out to accommodate plug in MCB’s. Try to knock it out and you would end up with a broken cover as I found out. It was far better to cut it following the line of the knock out.

With the greatest respect for my learned friend, I've never fitted one, I'm too young!

But I have learnt something here!, explains why I find so many with the covers missing all together!.

 

[telectrix]

Any of the members you’ve aimed this at Mike will err on the side of caution.

Could I suggest the moderators keep out of the discussion unless it gets fractious, obviously something would have to be done then.



Just to answer that one question the covers were designed with a central knock out to accommodate plug in MCB’s. Try to knock it out and you would end up with a broken cover as I found out. It was far better to cut it following the line of the knock out.

a perfect use for a cordless multi tool.

 

[dazza1981]

I assume all main bonding is in place and correctly sized

 

[MDJ]

The DB cover? The cover is off it and you can't even see one of the screw holes. Could be the angle of the photo though.

looks that way yes, but actually it is there, I removed the cover quite easily actually, admittedly it looks otherwise.

 

[MDJ]

I assume all main bonding is in place and correctly sized

Good question again, we are getting there. There is a 10mm2 Green and yellow to the gas, and a green 6mm2 going to the water, the airing cupboard and boiler cupboard are totally bonded throughout with clamps evident everywhere, I ran the lead around to see if continuity was okay and everything was 100%.

 

[shanky887614]

I would recomend a dp isolator before the henley block to add a single point of isolation.

Some support for the tails etc as well.

 

[MDJ]

I wonder what a 17 dayer would think? shame they won't have the balls to say

 

[GLENNSPARK]

a few factors would decide if I would recommend replacement .........

Is the backboard or frame of any of the 3036's made of a combustible material

How do the retro MCB's fit and interface with the existing board and do the cause any exposed parts

How does the cover fit and the subsequent fuse cover fit with these in place, as if both don't fit then this contravenes manufactures instructions

Is there any sign of over heating on with the carriers, busbar or blades

Is the existing installation suitable for the loads and the size of cables and total demand

The possible lack of a single point of isolation

The reason for the test and the expectations of the client, ( some of the tests I do are required to have a clean sheet)

Measured Zs readings and their relation to the fitted protective devices and their disconnection times

The earthing arrangements, this is a Tn system but a TT would require replacement.

That's just a few to start and is not ment to be exhaustive as I'm walking round morrisons ATM lol

generally you find that even with the fuse cover missing (due to plug in MCBs being fitted) the fitting around the MCBs still meets IP4X

not keen on the unused way though without the blank finger guard....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Good question again, we are getting there. There is a 10mm2 Green and yellow to the gas, and a green 6mm2 going to the water, the airing cupboard and boiler cupboard are totally bonded throughout with clamps evident everywhere, I ran the lead around to see if continuity was okay and everything was 100%.

what CSA is the main earthing...and whats the earthing arrangements?

is there any additional/fault protection to the old wylex boards?
sorry Mike...just read your post further up....

 

[Knobhead]

a perfect use for a cordless multi tool.

Cordless Multi Tool?

A hacksaw blade with tape wrapped around in back then. You should remember that, you’re older than me!

 

[MDJ]

I found several issues, but ignoring those which I will say about later in the thread, the main question to our part p friends is=" would you walk into that house and tell the customer the boards need replacing? if so and you may be correct, what would your argument be?"

 

[MDJ]

what CSA is the main earthing...and whats the earthing arrangements?

is there any additional/fault protection to the old wylex boards?

I did post it up Glenn lol, main earth to boards is old 10mm2 green cable, old 6mm2 green cable to water, 10mm2 green and yellow to gas, all readings fine, all continuity very good, both Wylex boards off henley block, no single point of isolation.

 

[dazza1981]

Are all connections mechanically sound?
Is the fuseboard labelled correctly to identify the circuits?
Is there bare copper showing out of the mcbs?
Are those fuseboards easily accesible?

 

[MDJ]

Are all connections mechanically sound?
Is the fuseboard labelled correctly to identify the circuits?
Is there bare copper showing out of the mcbs?
Are those fuseboards easily accesible?

yes
no
no
yes

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I did post it up Glenn lol, main earth to boards is old 10mm2 green cable, old 6mm2 green cable to water, 10mm2 green and yellow to gas, all readings fine, all continuity very good, both Wylex boards off henley block, no single point of isolation.

rite i`m coming away now Mike...let the youngsters have a look

 

[MDJ]

A snakes nest of wiring! Before I say anything are my eyes working correctly:

1) The service head feeds the meter
2) Meter then feeds a henley block
3) Henley then feeds two '3036' boards and a single '3036' board.
4) The R/H '3036' board then feeds an 'RCD' enclosure

sorry just noticed this, as you said, except the left hand board feeds the rcd 2 way db doing the downsatirs sockets

 

[Silly Sausage]

rite i`m coming away now Mike...let the youngsters have a look

Get off this thread Oldie!
Mike, you should have posted this in the Trainee's Forum.

 

[dazza1981]

My brains hurting mdj.... other than whats been said and what i stated i bet theres stuff glaringly obvious and im over analysing as usual!!!

 

[MDJ]

rite i`m coming away now Mike...let the youngsters have a look

LOL, I didn't mean to be sarcastic

 

[MDJ]

My brains hurting mdj.... other than whats been said and what i stated i bet theres stuff glaringly obvious and im over analysing as usual!!!

Look don't over analise, the point is would a new 17 day skilled spark go there and tell the customer they need to have a new board? if yes then please explain, if no please explain, there are remedial works required in the house, but do the boards need changing, I was hoping a 17 dayer would comment but as archy mentioned it may have been better in the trainee area.

 

[Simonslimline]

Surely as you are their to do the condition report then you could not say what needs doing until you are finished and have coded any deviations accordingly. You could not just look at it and say it all needs replacing.

In order to spot problems and give them the correct code you would need to be fully competent and have proper knowledge of the regs.

I am a trainee so still have a lot to learn however.

Look don't over analise, the point is would a new 17 day skilled spark go there and tell the customer they need to have a new board? if yes then please explain, if no please explain, there are remedial works required in the house, but do the boards need changing, I was hoping a 17 dayer would comment but as archy mentioned it may have been better in the trainee area.

 

[CockneyReject]

Surely as you are their to do the condition report then you could not say what needs doing until you are finished and have coded any deviations accordingly. You could not just look at it and say it all needs replacing.

In order to spot problems and give them the correct code you would need to be fully competent and have proper knowledge of the regs.

I am a trainee so still have a lot to learn however.

good point there mate and your right but there's a lot of sparks out there that would walk in take one look at that installation and scaremonger the owner into piles of remedial work and board changes before the meter is even taken out of the van and that'll be one of the reasons for this thread been started

MDJ, what's the age of the installation, were the additions done to the 16th or 17th and what's the 30 amp 3036 on its own feeding?


I'd love to see what a "domestic installers" views and opinions would be but I really don't think many will reply

 

[MDJ]

good point there mate and your right but there's a lot of sparks out there that would walk in take one look at that installation and scaremonger the owner into piles of remedial work and board changes before the meter is even taken out of the van and that'll be one of the reasons for this thread been started

MDJ, what's the age of the installation, were the additions done to the 16th or 17th and what's the 30 amp 3036 on its own feeding?


I'd love to see what a "domestic installers" views and opinions would be but I really don't think many will reply

35 years down to around 5, like all houses bits get added throughout the years
16th edition alterations mainly
30 amp 3036 (well spotted) feeds a light in a shed outside via a spur unit with 3 amp fuse in it

 

[walsall]

Do all lighting circuits have CPCs?

 

[CockneyReject]

Yeah looks a lot like every other house in the villages around here just a big old rats nest of add ons and bodges

are those 10mm singles feeding the shed board off the henleys?

 

[MDJ]

Do all lighting circuits have CPCs?

very good question, we are improving. okay all lighting circuits have CPCs, however in the hall way they are not at the switches, however there are switches with plastic push in covers hiding the 3.5mm2 screws.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah looks a lot like every other house in the villages around here just a big old rats nest of add ons and bodges

are those 10mm singles feeding the shed board off the henleys?

yes correct

 

[dazza1981]

yes agreed most would cockneyreject... but its not just the testing that needs to be done its the condition of the installation aswell, signs of damage,wear and tear,signs of over heating and that the installation is fit for purpose for now and until its next recommended inspection.

 

[R G]

What size is the main fuse , Main switches on the boards are 60 Amp only ,top of Henley block not to IP4X as also possibly some of the units , undersize main tails if 100amp main fuse , No single point of isolation , various outgoing circuits may require RCD protection if supplying special locations and cable in walls etc , are correction factors applied to circuits for the use of BS3036 semi enclosed fuses within limits as regards CCC,
looks like 10mm tails supplying 1 board from Henley block, wooden backed boards combustable material, Green sleeving in use , no access to the junction box with screws inaccessible, loose tails and cables , can home owner understand all that ,

 

[walsall]

Its nice and easy to go in and say the board needs replacing. Justifies time and money in front of the client. Wonder how many boards get done, and rings not tested properly.....

Did hear one 'sparky' on the phone in Screwfix tell his mate on the phone that it didn't matter that all the neutrals were in the wrong order on the board as they were all connected together anyway, and they wouldn't ever be back to test it. The van had a nice red and black plug on it and said "Approved Contractor"