Help new kitchen nightmare

[Ner123ak]

Hi
We have just spent quite a lot on having a new kitchen in another part of our house. This was a complete installation including new electrics plumbing etc.
It us now apparently finished and quite frankly the electrics scare me
The power cables are running in and out of the radiator pipes everywhere for a start. When I asked I was told it's ok it's heat protected cable.
Couple of pictures below I have many more from all over.
The hob and oven are just on a 13 amp plug and that don't seem right to me as well. The whole work is quite shocking but I will stick to electricals
Please could someone help me as I don't know what I should do
thnx v much for any advice
k

 

[GMES]

I was going to put this in the diy section but you may get more help in the main forum if you are just asking for opinions.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Looks like a mess, have you paid them up?

 

[telectrix]

Have you got a certificate for the work?

 

[Octopus]

Did they give you a certificate for the electrics they changed?

 

[Des 56]

Picture 1 needs to give a larger view for any useful comment
Picture 2 is bleak,very bleak

A oven on a plug top may or may not be adequate,it depends on rating
Hob on a plug top sounds very iffy to say the least

You need more pictures and much more info to be provided
There are skill/quality and building regs questions that will need answering

Who engaged the worker doing these electrics
Was he an electrician is the first question
Were references sought
Was he chosen because he was extra cheap

 

[rapparee]

It looks rough. Is it a gas cooker?

 

[amlu]

looks very rough. may be worth getting another electrician to have a look and test the installation. if theres is some serious issues have the first contractor come and sort it out...

 

[Geordie Spark]

Hi
We have just spent quite a lot on having a new kitchen in another part of our house. This was a complete installation including new electrics plumbing etc.
It us now apparently finished and quite frankly the electrics scare me
The power cables are running in and out of the radiator pipes everywhere for a start. When I asked I was told it's ok it's heat protected cable.
Couple of pictures below I have many more from all over.
The hob and oven are just on a 13 amp plug and that don't seem right to me as well. The whole work is quite shocking but I will stick to electricalsView attachment 28425View attachment 28424
Please could someone help me as I don't know what I should do
thnx v much for any advice
k

Is that a concrete floor and WHY are the copper pipes just lying on it?

Those pipes below the socket ..... the clips aren't closed onto them. It's not "that" important but it's quick and easy to close them but if they can't be arsed to do that what else had been skimped on??

If those pipes are for central heating they can be running at 80 degrees C for long periods. I'm not sure I would want cable as close as those are!!

Is your hob an electric one or is it gas with electric ignition?

Finally, did these contractors arrive at your premises in a motor vehicle or a horse drawn covered wagon? :cowboy:

 

[Geordie Spark]

Did they give you a certificate for the electrics they changed?

Aye .... written with a piece of chalk on the back of a Corn Flakes packet! :laugh:

 

[PEG]

...Looks like a pretty common attempt,where the electrical part of your project has taken a lower priority on your contractors' list...

I genuinely feel for the OP.who probably went through the process of getting quotes,and assumed all players read from the same hymn sheet.

See this,and much worse,every month. Last one was an impressive,and expensive two-property rear orangery,bi-folds and feature log burner...the works. The door to the kitchen,opened in to the addition,and a cupboard/shoe store had been built on the lock side.

A double S/O had been fitted on the side of this,30mm pattress,cables in cupboard in trunking...all neat...until you plugged something in and tried to open the door...

Owner had asked my opinion on this issue,although several rational options were apparent...someone needed punching :icon12:

 

[NDG Elecs]

Shoddy lazy work. I feel for the OP as they should give the, ahem, electrician, cough, splutter, the chance to rectify the issues. But I would not want someone like that anywhere near my house ever again. The grey cable is not heat resistant and I doubt the white flex is either. So shoddy work and a liar. And I hope the hob is gas with electric ignition!

More photos as others have suggested. May be worthwhile talking to another local electrician expressing your concerns and seeing if they can spend an hour to give it a visual check over.

GOOD LUCK!!

 

[Knobhead]

Caveat emptor: Employing a kitchen fitters to carry out other trades is a recipe for disaster.

The law provides for recompense against poor workmanship. If the OP is aggrieved only he can take it up with the kitchen fitters.

 

[Ner123ak]

Hi.people sorry late reply just back from work to let the electrician in to apparently put things right
We paid half the money before work started. We are supposed to get certs when we pay the remainder.
Update so the electrician has just been round again and has put trunking around the cables and moved away from pipes a bit and tidied up the cables strewn across the loft. Although I haven't looked too close and will post some pictures later.
Our other worry the hob and oven just on two 13 amp plugs to the wall. He just baffled me with numbers and when I said. I don't see plugs mentioned in the installation manual He said its because people would try and plug them into light circuits. I replied I've never seen a light switch with a plug socket in it and why wouldn't they just plug it in the wall anyway. But then got swamped with techno talk
i really appreciate all the kind responses and will post back later when we are home
thnx all again

 

[Octopus]

Hi.people sorry late reply just back from work to let the electrician in to apparently put things right
We paid half the money before work started. We are supposed to get certs when we pay the remainder.
Update so the electrician has just been round again and has put trunking around the cables and moved away from pipes a bit and tidied up the cables strewn across the loft. Although I haven't looked too close and will post some pictures later.
Our other worry the hob and oven just on two 13 amp plugs to the wall. He just baffled me with numbers and when I said. I don't see plugs mentioned in the installation manual He said its because people would try and plug them into light circuits. I replied I've never seen a light switch with a plug socket in it and why wouldn't they just plug it in the wall anyway. But then got swamped with techno talk
i really appreciate all the kind responses and will post back later when we are home
thnx all again

Have you got the make and model numbers for the oven and hob?

 

[telectrix]

as above, or can you read off the KW rating on each?

 

[Engineer54]

The first thing to ascertain is, ...is this a particularly rough qualified electrician, or a DI (Domestic Installer) that at best has been to a training center for 5 Weeks or at worst , for just 17 days??

My guess is the latter, and a perfect example of why these chancers should not be allowed into people homes....

Anyway what are you, or should i say, how far are you prepared to go to get your electrical installation back to a reasonable expected standard??

How about posting a few more photo's of what you are considering not up to scratch or indeed dangerous...

 

[Ner123ak]

Here's a couple more pics top and bottom going up wall into loft.
Also worryingly I think for us the hob and oven are electric they are Lamona side control hob. Lamona fan assisted oven. LAM3301. Will post pictures later
We will be giving him a chance to out things right. But are still very worried about and would appreciate all comments.
thnx

 

[Octopus]

The first thing to ascertain is, ...is this a particularly rough qualified electrician, or a DI (Domestic Installer) that at best has been to a training center for 5 Weeks or at worst , for just 17 days??

My guess is the latter, and a perfect example of why these chancers should not be allowed into people homes....

Anyway what are you, or should i say, how far are you prepared to go to get your electrical installation back to a reasonable expected standard??

How about posting a few more photo's of what you are considering not up to scratch or indeed dangerous...

This has all the hall marks of a kitchen fitter doing the work and a spark coming to test and sign ofF. Done lots by very established sparks from my experience.

 

[telectrix]

Here's a couple more pics top and bottom going up wall into loft.
Also worryingly I think for us the hob and oven are electric they are Lamona side control hob. Lamona fan assisted oven. LAM3301. Will post pictures later
We will be giving him a chance to out things right. But are still very worried about and would appreciate all comments.
thnx

no pics!

 

[Spoon]

Is there no way the OP can find out if the guy is actually an electrician?
Should'nt the electrician have proof?

 

[Engineer54]

Is there no way the OP can find out if the guy is actually an electrician?
Should'nt the electrician have proof?

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a client ask to see an artisans qualifications. Any decent electrician will be only too proud to show them too, ....unless he hasn't got anything apart from a couple of worthless add on things...

 

[Darkwood]

Let him rectify any works he has said he would, ask for a certificate first as he cannot withhold it as a bargaining chip for payment, (the cert is his way of saying the work he has done is compliant and up to a good standard).. arrange a day to pay but in the mean time get a registered company to assess his work and give you there opinion (verbally at first), if its a bad report ask them to do an inspection on the new kitchen works and write a report up for you... it may be a little more money but may save you a lot of aggro' in the long run if he knows you have had someone who's competent inspect his work... If it is in questionable condition then I would withhold final payment until all issues have been resolved at no extra cost...

If he then gets arkward and refuses and demands payment - explain that you will get another company in to rectify the work to meet regulations and will deduct it off the final bill, any issues with you doing so express you will get a solicitor involved.


Try do all communication by Email or text or recorded calls.... show in these that you have given plenty of opportunity for the work if substandard to be rectified.
The more evidence you have the tighter the corner he gets backed into is.

 

[Ner123ak]

Sorry thought these had loaded.
He apparently works for a known company that I don't want to name. We haven't seen any qualification. I should have asked I know.
The hob manual LAM1701 1702. Hob left front 1700 rear left 1200 rear right1200. Front left 1700
total power5800 watt
cable type. HO5V2V2-F 2.5 mm 3 core or equiv min. Which on readin worry some as he told me he had changed it to a 1.5
Oven. LAM3301 2.4 kw
Both manuals say should be connected to a double pole control unit I did bring this up but was swamped with jargon like I said
Will post pic of plugs when get sent them from home.
thx all

 

[Ner123ak]

The pics are top and bottom of wall that enters the loft Hope they are clear enough.

 

[telectrix]

totally unacceptable. that cable should be supported throughout it's length. as for the hob, it need to be hard wired through a 45A isolator and a cooker connection point. same with the oven. if located close together, a single 45A isolator and a dual outlet CCU will suffice. feed cable should be 6mm on a 32A MCB.

 

[Ner123ak]

Darkwood thns
Probably the only sensible thing we did was conduct everything by email. Even him telling us it's ok they are heat shielded cables. The hob and oven on plugs is ok
They have already mailed us the final bill We have never not paid a bill in our lives and don't like the thought if all this hassle at all. But I will not pay till satisfied and that does seem a long way off .
Already 5 k down the drain time to stop the leak.
thnx

 

[Silly Sausage]

The plumber isn't much better either! :frown2:

 

[Ner123ak]

The plumber isn't much better either! :frown2:

Oh man could you please explain. I have been starting to worry a bit about that as why would a good tradesman work with a poor one.

 

[Ner123ak]

Head is now at saturation point.
Home now to listen to the voice recorder I hid when I went back to work leaving them alone to sort things out.
Sly I know but our backs against the wall.
Heres the plug for the cooker n hob.

 

[telectrix]

phew. bad enough putting them on plugs, but to plug both into the same double beggars belief. this so called electrician is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a qualified tradesman. in you place , i'd get a proper spark to sort this mess out, then knock his charges off the 50% that you have retained.in fact, keep it all and boot him off the job. i'd not let that guy back in the house. even if he rectified the work, you'd still need to get it checked, and he probably hasn't got the equipment to test and certify the work anyway. to be blunt, the guy's an absolute ----er.

 

[Darkwood]

I would see if any competent members on here would be in your location and just get them to have a check at his work.... I'm concerned that the socket is also part of the ringmain and not a dedicated supply ...this would see you having nuisance tripping when you have other items plug into the same ring that are heavy energy uses like dryers/washers kettles etc... judging by the pics I pass on great concern as to the actual design of the circuits and whether they are even to regulation and/or safe.

His methods from a visual aspect ring alarm bells and to comment further I would need to really be there, sorry that you have found yourself in this situe' and its possible its not as bad as it seems but we can only respond to the impression we get from the photos.

 

[Leesparkykent]

It's not a good situation to be in. By the looks of what you have shown the so called "electrician" is a chancer and I wouldn't be letting him come back to rectify the work. I would get another electrician in as telectrix said to rectify his mess and to also check over the rest of the work he has done and knock the cost off the final bill.

 

[telectrix]

It's not a good situation to be in. By the looks of what you have shown the so called "electrician" is a chancer and I wouldn't be letting him come back to rectify the work. I would get another electrician in as telectrix said to rectify his mess and to also to check over the rest of the work he has done and knock the cost off the final bill.

you're a lot closer than most of us. get yer arse round there.lol. :49:

 

[Leesparkykent]

you're a lot closer than most of us. get yer arse round there.lol. :49:

Lol, Depends where in London the OP is? There are a few members on here who are based in London "amlu" is one member who is.

 

[telectrix]

they have my deepest sympathy.

 

[telectrix]

well.kent is london's allotment, innit.

 

[Octopus]

Back to the OP - was this an install by a "big shed" where they subbed the install out?

 

[Ner123ak]

Hi
we are in herts and would happily pay someone good enough to come if near.
I am interested in what happens next and will post
thnx for all the help.

 

[Geordie Spark]

well.kent is london's allotment, innit.

Careful now.


That's where the hops come from and what do we use hops for??

 

[Geordie Spark]

Oh man could you please explain. I have been starting to worry a bit about that as why would a good tradesman work with a poor one.

SEE POST #9

But .......... I don't think the "plumber" is that bad. His soldered joints look neat with the solder not running all over the shop like the grease on a half burned candle.

 

[telectrix]

haha. just opened a bottle of king goblin. only brewed on a full moon. 6.6%. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

 

[Silly Sausage]

SEE POST #9

But .......... I don't think the "plumber" is that bad. His soldered joints look neat with the solder not running all over the shop like the grease on a half burned candle.

There are 10 unnecessary bends/elbows in the pipework featured in pic2/post 1 & the 2nd set of pics. (assuming they're the same pipes going through that wall)

 

[Geordie Spark]

haha. just opened a bottle of king goblin. only brewed on a full moon. 6.6%. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Lucky bugger!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

There are 10 unnecessary bends/elbows in the pipework featured in pic2/post 1 & the 2nd set of pics. (assuming they're the same pipes going through that wall)

They were free samples he got from the merchant and he had try them out somewhere!!

 

[NDG Elecs]

phew. bad enough putting them on plugs, but to plug both into the same double beggars belief. this so called electrician is not, by any stretch of the imagination, a qualified tradesman. in you place , i'd get a proper spark to sort this mess out, then knock his charges off the 50% that you have retained.in fact, keep it all and boot him off the job. i'd not let that guy back in the house. even if he rectified the work, you'd still need to get it checked, and he probably hasn't got the equipment to test and certify the work anyway. to be blunt, the guy's an absolute ----er.

Beautifully articulated. Don't let the idiot back in your house.

 

[brucelee]

Hi mate I Cant believe he thinks the double socket and 13A plugs are adequate for your oven and hob whatever figures and technical garbage he was speaking was complete and utter tosh and bull, he didn't get the values and figures from working it by the KW rating or current carry capacities of cables or using any of the tabulated values from the Regulations he should be hopefully following, as no way on earth the socket circuit, double socket outlet or the 13A plugs and the flexes are any where near adequate,the flex only looks like 1.5mm at most. the cables will be hotter than the oven

Mate I would complain to them and tell them you want an Independent fully qualified JIB electrician to come round to check and put right there mess paid for by them
This is what kitchen fitters do all the time bodge and run when it comes to the electrics and plumbing my brother paid £10k and got similar workmanship with a fancy granite work top thats the only good bit he paid for the rest was a bodge, they didn't even fix his plinths on top of the cupboards, double socket under sink trapped behind pipes and bottom of cupboard so flexes bent beyond 90 degrees, No Main protective bonding to water under sink and not to mention the 2 stopcocks one under the cupboard with the incoming pipe bent over flat with the stopcock jammed solid and a nice shiny new one in cupboard which wouldn't isolate the water which was coming from the 90 elbow hid under cupboard behind the kickboard
9 x 50 w halogens fed by 2.5mm fed from a connector block shoved under floor with some flex of somekind connected to base of a 3 plate rose so terminals visible , and the nice fault from the loop burning through to the Neutral which i found
the cables slung behind like washing lines , No grommets in boxes and cables damaged through this and the shoddy way they cut the boxes into the tiles, rough to say the least the extra longs 3.5mm machine screw only jsut reached through them chasing the boxes nearly into next room

Ask them what scheme there electrician is registered and a member off and proof so you can contact them as well to complain, the certificate he gives you wont be worth the paper its written on as Guaranteed it full of lies

I feel sorry for you mate you pay good money and all you want is a good job worth that
good luck hope you get some recompense from them

 

[davesparks]

totally unacceptable. that cable should be supported throughout it's length. as for the hob, it need to be hard wired through a 45A isolator and a cooker connection point. same with the oven. if located close together, a single 45A isolator and a dual outlet CCU will suffice. feed cable should be 6mm on a 32A MCB.

Why not a 32A isolator?

 

[Octopus]

Back to the OP - was this an install by a "big shed" where they subbed the install out?

OP - don't name the supplier but was it one of the "big names"? If so they sub the work out at fixed prices and hey presto the standard of work is rubbish as the company quoting often don't see the job, nor understand what is actually required from a sparky, plumber or gas fitter!

 

[Soulsurfer]

Feel bad for you buddy as that is some of the worst work I've seen in years electrically & plumbing wise. As the very experienced electricians have already posted on here the total lack of knowledge so far as the isolation & outlets for the oven for example beggar belief ! Taking into account diversity for your oven and hob I would be concerned as to whether the twin socket in your cupboard carcass would get all hot and melted before the flexes or the RCBO if fitted at the CU tripped ? I'd never give the dangerous bellend the time of day again !