I never install ring circuits, the potential for danger is unacceptable

[ZEDEZ]

I’d like to know if anyone else here refuses to install ring circuits in domestic premises.

For me it’s either a 20a radial / tree circuit with 2.5mm, or a 32 radial / tree circuit with 4.0mm.

Frankly I’m tired of finding broken ring circuits on 32a CB’s, as well as mismatches on end to end tests. It drives me nuts on jobs that should be simple.

I wish we would get rid of this ridiculous practice here in the UK.

I know some of you will say there’s nothing wrong with it when it’s properly installed and tested, but inevitably at some point in the future someone will come along and disconnect a conductor unknowingly while changing outlets on the circuit.

Testing is more complicated, and diagnosing faults on a ring also.

 

[ZEDEZ]

A question for the OP, what is the potential for danger, please explain as then I may make a decision as to whether it's acceptable or not?

A leg gets disconnected, no one is wiser because everything still “works” and the circuit is overloaded

 

[ZEDEZ]

that is not the fault of the design of the circuit.what is unacceptable is numpties messing with things they don't have a clue about. would you condemn gas supplies in case some idiot turned the gas on then lit a match?

Yes but the point is people will mess with these things. With a radial or a tree, a disconnected live conductor means whatever is downstream stops working - fault is obvious and it gets checked out.

Not the case with a RFC. In my opinion that’s bad design. You have to factor this inevitability into the design, and I do, that’s why I don’t install RFC’s.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Someone can replace the 32a mcb for a 50a on a RFC, that's their problem,you cant blame the circuit because someone cocks it up.

 

[freddo]

The only time I've ever heard a reference to a tree circuit was in this awful book.

 

[ipf]

The only time I've ever heard a reference to a tree circuit was in this awful book.

Says it all.....with that wazzock involved....probably why I've never heard of 'tree's......except at Christmas, of course.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Funny that.

The RFC is an artefact of materials shortage during WWII, and isn’t really used anywhere else in the world spare a few exceptions.

If it were the best method, it would have been taken up elsewhere.

I don’t know why so many electricians love the RFC other than it’s familiar

I think you have to question ZEDEZ if it is likely that you are right or if a much larger number of people are right? It would be good if you could acknowledge you 'may' be wrong. I think testing a 'tree' would be a nightmare and people could add to it all over the place making it even harder. I do agree though that you do find quite a few broken rings but I still prefer them as 90% of the time they are intact and they still use less copper than a 4mm radial which can only be a good thing.

 

[littlespark]

The only time I've ever heard a reference to a tree circuit was in this awful book.

I just checked this link, and apparently the book is out of stock. Have you all been buying a copy?

 

[telectrix]

the dreaded CockUp strikes again.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I instal radials all the time.
Mostly for lights.
Though one time when I added a couple of flouries to an existing circuit, I ended up making it into a ring to counter the volt drop on start up.

 

[Leesparkykent]

All this 4mm 32A radials that people bang on about, boils my pee. A 4mm radial on a 32A OCPD will hardly ever comply.

 

[Red Tony]

As your title suggests......'the potential for danger is too great'......

I wouldn't touch gas as I'm not qualified too......

So why do folk touch electrics whilst not qualified.......?

As I've said on another thread they deserve a belt if they get one whilst interfering!

I'm totally against what you say......rings are king!

British standards are the daddy too so we better hang on to 'our' methods......

Fcuk the rest!!

 

[Leesparkykent]

What’s a tree circuit? Is that a MF JB and a spur to a socket?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

All this 4mm 32A radials that people bang on about, boils my pee. A 4mm radial on a 32A OCPD will hardly ever comply.

All depends on the reference method.
Buried direct in plaster should be ok.

 

[Leesparkykent]

All depends on the reference method.
Buried direct in plaster should be ok.

Yes that’s stating the obvious.....of course it depends on the reference method.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I prefer radials but install both rings and radials. The main reason I prefer radials is they are far quicker and easier to test, particularly if you do not know the layout as on an EICR.No other reason, certainly not the OP's reasons

 

[ELECNEWT]

I am interested as to why 4mm radials with 32 amp breakers are unlikely to comply. Not arguing just interested.

 

[Squid]

A leg gets disconnected, no one is wiser because everything still “works” and the circuit is overloaded

Do you have documentary proof on how often this happens and what the results where or is just scaremongering?

 

[Squid]

I prefer parallel circuits linked to a tree circuit and then some serial circuits for shits and giggles.........

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Do you have documentary proof on how often this happens and what the results where or is just scaremongering?

The OP has a point here, take a ring for example after Kev the Kitchen bod has altered it, but Kev would mess a radial up as well

 

[Leesparkykent]

I am interested as to why 4mm radials with 32 amp breakers are unlikely to comply. Not arguing just interested.

Because the CCC on a 32A OCPD in regards to installation method....So 100, 101, 102 and 103 are all out of the window.