Notifiable works.

[UNG]

Crikey guys!! Bet this chaps wishing he never asked the question!

It looks like he did actually know that it wasn't notifiable as he mentioned not starting a new circuit, and he was just looking for a bit of reassurance as he wanted to do the right thing. He also mentioned the MWC which would be ok for extending a circuit, although he would actually need 2 MWC's as extending both lights and sockets.

I think you may have scared him off :leaving:

And your point is !!!! There are a lot of people that need scaring off from doing electrical work that they are not trained or competent to do

 

[Silly Sausage]

I was at ELEX the other week, NICEIE biggest stall there, loads of geezers in nice t shirts, hardly a punter in sight.
Asked a couple of them, where's the IET stand, didn't have a clue, you know the people who publish the regs... still a blank look.

That's where your money's going!!!

 

[trev]

That's where your money's going!!!

It certainly isn't going on the promotion of electrical safety that's for sure. When was the last time you saw an ad campaign on what dangers electricity presents?

 

[shanky887614]

The current situation should never have been allowed it should have been killed off at birth as a totally unfit for purpose system. The sparks back in the 70's and 80's thought the Skillcentres were bad turning out sparks in 6 months but they were no where near as bad as what is being turned out now



I can't see how these scams are needed in the industry they take money from any one and supposedly verify their competence to trade as an electrical installer ( won't use the term Electrician in this instance) and when these installers are found doing work way below the required standard these scams seem to hide under a stone and do nothing about it. I'm with Tel the sooner these scams cease to exist the better as they are vehicles for promoting poor training and giving under skilled poorly qualified operatives the credibility to trade

the main problem is not about how long you were trained but competence etc.

there is someone I know that did a full 4 year apprenticeship and is now qualified and I would rather have kev,wetpants ext trying there hands at electrics.

there that fooking rough.


if these fast tracked sparks etc are treated as electrician's directly under an onsite supervisor I dont see the issue if there not designing or doing anything too technical outside of there abilities.

 

[davesparks]

They must not be treated as electricians, they should be treated as first year apprentices until they have demonstrated competence to be considered as anything else.

 

[davesparks]

Unfortunately it is too late, the scams and the Electrical Trainee are now well established. All that would happen is all the Electrical Trainee would become members of the scams and use this when talking to customers.

What maybe should happen is all the Electrical Trainee become members of scams to use as ongoing competence while all time served sparks don't have to register with them as there competence is already proven over many years.

Yeah, that's the attitude that is going to really help, give up without even trying!

 

[shanky887614]

They must not be treated as electricians, they should be treated as first year apprentices until they have demonstrated competence to be considered as anything else.

you say that but they can do it neat if they try like a lot of people they just dont give a ----

 

[davesparks]

Doing something neatly doesn't make it correct.
You could very neatly install tails through individual stuffing glands in a TPN DB, but it'll still be a touch on the lethal side!

 

[shanky887614]

Doing something neatly doesn't make it correct.
You could very neatly install tails through individual stuffing glands in a TPN DB, but it'll still be a touch on the lethal side!

true but usually you don't get one without the other.

 

[trev]

Unfortunately it is too late, the scams and the Electrical Trainee are now well established.

That's exactly the complacent attitude that needs to be fought mate

the main problem is not about how long you were trained but competence etc.

The main problem as I see it is the fact that the r£egulatory bodies are taking everyone for mugs and very few people can see it. Multiply up all these £500 DI fees, add in £1000 multiplied by the ACs and you get the amount that one of them is raking in each year (a figure which is only going to grow as everyone who can afford the fee is going to get the badge they want whether it be DI or AC)
Now, how much of that is spent on doing what they're supposed to be doing which is promoting electrical safety? How can they promote electrical safety when everyone and his dog can get badged up?
The scenario is no better with any of them.

 

[davesparks]

I agree, usually if it looks like a bodge it is a bodge. But I'm sure we have all seen the occasional picture perfect job with dangerous errors.

 

[Silly Sausage]

That's exactly the complacent attitude that needs to be fought mate

Dragging myself from my torpour, that's what they're feeding off!

 

[Simonslimline]

It's nice to see that someone has been listening and now actually believes in what I've been saying for months.
Now, if you head on over to the campaign FB page and share your stories about how you have come to this point of view maybe more will get behind it and we could get some people power going on.

What is the page called or do you have a link to it please trev. Wouldn't mind a look

 

[trev]

Unfortunately it is too late, the scams and the Electrical Trainee are now well established.
I've reread your post Dillb and what you say makes sense so it was unfair of me to have a bit of a pop but I'd rather see us get rid of the schemes as they are at present and start again as we mean to go on.

What is the page called or do you have a link to it please trev. Wouldn't mind a look

It's called UK Electricians Save Our Trade

 

[Plonker 3]

Yeah I could maybe of worded it a bit better, but my point is all short course folk need to prove competence by paying a scam a fee to be assessed at regular intervals maybe even by the scam turning up on sites at short notice, picking jobs they have certified at random rather than being shown a job chosen by them. Then after a set period of time they can be told yes your work is satisfactory you no longer need us to keep a eye on you, away they go so the public know then they are more than capable of doing the job. So abit like a NVQ or equivalent but with stricter terms.

 

[davesparks]

Whilst I will not be renewing my ELECSA registration in October as it doesn't bother me as I don't do jobs where building control are involved I wonder what those of us who do that kind of work can do?

It seems to be generally assumed that building control will charge £300+ per job if you are not registered, which is going to put the knackers on the plan to boycott the schemes.
I think this charge is wrong and will try to find out a bit more about what they are allowed to charge.

Is the Stroma scheme still available? And if it is is it any better than the others?

I'll be looking at registering with BSI instead, but can see many others being happy to shell out the extra cost.

 

[davesparks]

Yeah I could maybe of worded it a bit better, but my point is all short course folk need to prove competence by paying a scam a fee to be assessed at regular intervals maybe even by the scam turning up on sites at short notice, picking jobs they have certified at random rather than being shown a job chosen by them. Then after a set period of time they can be told yes your work is satisfactory you no longer need us to keep a eye on you, away they go so the public know then they are more than capable of doing the job. So abit like a NVQ or equivalent but with stricter terms.

The trouble is the scams don't assess people properly, that's how we've ended up with this nonsense in the first place.
If the scams had assessed people properly then we wouldn't be in this situation.

 

[UNG]

the main problem is not about how long you were trained but competence etc.

So your qualified to make this assessment then like some of the scam assessors that were previously employed in industries other than the one they are assessing competence in

there is someone I know that did a full 4 year apprenticeship and is now qualified and I would rather have kev,wetpants ext trying there hands at electrics.

there that fooking rough.

There is nothing new about that it's been happening for as long as I can remember and probably before that

if these fast tracked sparks etc are treated as electrician's directly under an onsite supervisor I dont see the issue if there not designing or doing anything too technical outside of there abilities.

If they are treated as an electrician they should be capable of all aspects of the job that's what these 5 week courses are selling them isn't it

 

[Plonker 3]

The trouble is the scams don't assess people properly, that's how we've ended up with this nonsense in the first place.
If the scams had assessed people properly then we wouldn't be in this situation.

Oh we all know what a joke they are, that's why we need to get them earning their money rather than just sitting there doing sweet FA, I know we will all have different ideas about what is needed and this is just mine.

 

[trev]

Whilst I will not be renewing my ELECSA registration in October as it doesn't bother me as I don't do jobs where building control are involved I wonder what those of us who do that kind of work can do?

It seems to be generally assumed that building control will charge £300+ per job if you are not registered, which is going to put the knackers on the plan to boycott the schemes.
I think this charge is wrong and will try to find out a bit more about what they are allowed to charge.

Is the Stroma scheme still available? And if it is is it any better than the others?

I'll be looking at registering with BSI instead, but can see many others being happy to shell out the extra cost.

My idea is to play the schemes at their own game, we'd appoint one person to act as "national QS" if you like. They'd notify each job through their registration, this would A keep everyone (sort of) legal and B protect the homeowner.
Yes Stroma still exists, they're no better or worse than the others