Why aren't ring circuits banned?

[chronyx]

Doing a lot of EICRs in London at the moment and I'd say every other C.U. has a ring circuit with no continuity on one of the conductors.

Seeing as the IET see fit to tinker around the edges constantly with the regs, I struggle to understand why these potentially extremely dangerous circuits are still permitted. Yet bonding and earth conductors have almost doubled in size because, well, they said so.

It's not 1949 anymore. Ban the damn things.

 

[andyb]

I like them.

 

[chronyx]

I don't.

 

[kingeri]

Any circuit can be subject to various failures over the years, not just ring finals. Found a radial socket circuit recently with no cpc continuity beyond the first socket. Had it been a ring, there would still have been an earth connected from the other leg.

 

[Wes1000]

Isn't that the fault of the people who tinker with the circuits without knowing what they are doing. Maybe they should ban them instead.

 

[Pete999]

I don't.

I do

 

[Octopus]

I think its horses for courses.... in the "average" house the only rooms where load may be an issue are likely to be the kitchen and utility - so the remaining circuits should all be radials IMHO

 

[chronyx]

Isn't that the fault of the people who tinker with the circuits without knowing what they are doing. Maybe they should ban them instead.

It doesn't matter who's fault it is, it's an inherently dangerous design. Just like plastic C.U.s apparently were/are.

 

[chronyx]

I think its horses for courses.... in the "average" house the only rooms where load may be an issue are likely to be the kitchen and utility - so the remaining circuits should all be radials IMHO

Are we really that strapped we can't just run a 4mm radial? It's pathetic.

 

[chronyx]

Any circuit can be subject to various failures over the years, not just ring finals. Found a radial socket circuit recently with no cpc continuity beyond the first socket. Had it been a ring, there would still have been an earth connected from the other leg.

A 2 second 'Martindale' test would have identified that. (Edit: As opposed to the 'end-to-end' tests that mean dismantling C.U. and circuit)

 

[VoltzElectrical]

I hate Ring Finals. Periodic testing is a pain. We tests some of our public buildings annually for licensing purposes and when there are over 50 distribution boards, the disconnecting and reconnecting of RFD circuits to prove continuity does more harm than good.

This is my opinion, and I appreciate that others feel differently.

 

[davesparks]

Doing a lot of EICRs in London at the moment and I'd say every other C.U. has a ring circuit with no continuity on one of the conductors.

Seeing as the IET see fit to tinker around the edges constantly with the regs, I struggle to understand why these potentially extremely dangerous circuits are still permitted. Yet bonding and earth conductors have almost doubled in size because, well, they said so.

It's not 1949 anymore. Ban the damn things.

That would cause a massive price increase on quite a lot of installations as thcable sizes go way up, and potentially cause a loss of redundancy where rings are installed for that purpose.
Ring circuits are used for a lot more than just domestic socket circuits, they feature ything up to high voltage distribution circuits, where would you draw the line with your 'ban'?

 

[kingeri]

Rings are very versatile circuits, it's a daft idea to ban them based on finding some with faults. I admit I am inclined to install radials for sockets more often than i used to, but then again I tend to install more circuits in total these days too. Gone are the days when there is one ring serving all the sockets in the house! Although this was the case for many years and I don't remember hearing of loads of houses burning down as a result. In my view, it is testament to the robustness of the ring.

 

[Octopus]

Are we really that strapped we can't just run a 4mm radial? It's pathetic.

I was really thinking about those shed sold sockets where getting more than 2 x 2.5mm cables in the terminals can be tricky....

 

[chronyx]

That would cause a massive price increase on quite a lot of installations as thcable sizes go way up, and potentially cause a loss of redundancy where rings are installed for that purpose.
Ring circuits are used for a lot more than just domestic socket circuits, they feature ything up to high voltage distribution circuits, where would you draw the line with your 'ban'?

Crap, we're the only country that uses them.

 

[Andy78]

How about campaigning for greater awareness of the importance of householders regularly having their installations tested rather than banning circuits that the lowest skilled in our trade may have problems with installing and testing ? Do you really want to advocate the continued dumbing down ?

 

[davesparks]

Doing a lot of EICRs in London at the moment and I'd say every other C.U. has a ring circuit with no continuity on one of the conductors.

Seeing as the IET see fit to tinker around the edges constantly with the regs, I struggle to understand why these potentially extremely dangerous circuits are still permitted. Yet bonding and earth conductors have almost doubled in size because, well, they said so.

It's not 1949 anymore. Ban the damn things.

Every circuit has the potential to be extremely dangerous if it is not installed and tested properly, why would you single out ring circuits for this?

How old are the circuits you are finding these issues with? Are they reasonably modern circuits which have been fully tested at the time of installation or are they older circuits which may not have been tested at install or have been fiddled with over time?

 

[bigspark17]

I love rings.. yes testing them compared to radials on an eicr is a pain but for me the pros far outweigh he cons! Do you r1/rn & r1/r2 @ every socket with cables crossed at db out of interest?

 

[kingeri]

A 2 second 'Martindale' test would have identified that. (Edit: As opposed to the 'end-to-end' tests that mean dismantling C.U. and circuit)

I did identify it, the point is that it had probably been like that for years.

 

[davesparks]

Crap, we're the only country that uses them.

I wouldn't know about that, but I do know that my commercial customers have ring circuits installed for the output of static inverters and central battery systems to reduce voltage drop and give redundancy, especially on lower voltage DC circuits.
Car park lighting or large area lighting also utilises ring circuits to limit volt drop and cable size.
Distribution circuits, both LV and HV, utilise various forms of ring circuits, mostly for redundancy.

You would sure as hell see a lot more power cuts if a universal ban on ring circuits was applied across the country