client does not want to pay? but work is not complete complaining??

[Mike Blair]

currently took over someones job on a control 4 system "huge home automated system" due that being an extra they paid my boss separate for this. alot of lighting has Big transformers which had to be put local to the control 4. doing this i had to make connections "wagos and tape" due to many changes ect alot had to be extended as well do design error etc. i said to the customer and also put on the eir noted to client to put 230v sign and locks on electrical cupboard doors.

the customer stopped paying my boss to do the control 4 and leading me not to finish the job. but it is unfinished such as more terminations need to be done. some wagos not taped. cables not zip tied etc and now there complaining saying it is not neet etc? but they wont pay for us to come do it? how do i go by this?

also saying they dont like the way the connections are done. but doesnt the whole system being in a cupboard and taped etc come under barriers and enclosure reg?

im just in the middle like a sunken ship lol

 

[123]

Wago's and tape?
Are the these not in a suitable enclosure then?

 

[westward10]

I am lost for words, zip ties, taped Wagon connectors. Not sure I would be paying either.

 

[Pete999]

I am lost for words, zip ties, taped Wagon connectors. Not sure I would be paying either.

Nor me wagos and tape tut tut

 

[GMES]

It doesn't sound good on any Level Mike to be honest.
Tape, Cable ties, what's wrong with wago enclosures with din mounted terminal connectors.
A couple of pictures would be nice and also don't take this the wrong way but your op is a bit confusing and muddled although I think i get the point.

 

[Mike Blair]

tip ties inside the control 4 panel its self. and the transformers looked like this

i had such a small space to work with and alot of transformers would the cupboard door not act as part of barriors? even though the job is not finished i can add wago box's to the connections but the client wont pay for my hours to do it

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Well myself I am lost that you did a eir and the job isn't done.

Under the impression that the EIR is the last thing to do and done after payment

 

[Mike Blair]

eir was for the whole house. a seperate eir is needed for the control 4 systems from what ive been told

 

[123]

Whats an EIR?

 

[GMES]

What was the reason the customer cited for not paying and asking your boss to stop.

 

[GMES]

Whats an EIR?

I'm guessing he meant EIC

 

[Mike Blair]

right now the customers not happy with anything if they dont want to pay my boss how can my boss send me to continue and finish the work? the control 4 wasn't part of the contract that was an additional. soo what can i do etc? just sat here waiting for orders

 

[Mike Blair]

also since them the client has also been working inside the control 4 because he would not pay for our time to do it. such as adding sockets inside it + patch panals and connecting some circuits etc. ive offerd him information to help but other then that what can i doo?

 

[telectrix]

Mike. all due respect, but it's your boss's problem to sort out with the customer, not your's. Your boss needs to communicate with the customer and between them come to some sort of agreement as to the way forward.

 

[Pete999]

Yep agree with Tel, your sounds like a bit of a Dilbert

 

[Mike Blair]

whats a dilbert haha

 

[Pete999]

whats a dilbert haha

dipstick, Muppet, clown etc

 

[freddo]

I'm not following all that well, some photos would help explain the setup a bit!

 

[westward10]

I'm not following all that well, some photos would help explain the setup a bit!

Agree I would like to see these works, with the client doing his own add ons the whole thing sounds like it is getting out of control.

 

[Pete999]

Like I said the boss is a Dilbert for letting the job get this mullered

 

[bigspark17]

Hi mike, well done for posting this up as it obvious has opened the door to some critersism twoards you/the company. By asking the question it does show your willingness to please and do a good job that is a compliment to you none will doubt. That said wagos and tape inside a cupboard is not acceptable, and you should never give an EIC untill all the works covered under that cert are completed, as others have said though you should refrain from contacting the customer direct and deal everything through your boss.

 

[Mike Blair]

only want to doo the right thing just stressed out now

 

[westward10]

only want to doo the right thing just stressed out now

Sounds like you want to do the right thing but circumstances are stopping you.

 

[Mike Blair]

but i cant do it if they wont pay my boss like a catch 22

 

[123]

Mike, just worry about your boss paying you...the customer and this job is his problem.

The quality of work inside this cupboard is another matter though, is he telling you to do it this way?

 

[Mike Blair]

he messaged my boss saying he isnt happy the way they are wago'd

my arguement is the work is unfinished and the solution is wago box's but they wont pay for the time to do it

 

[westward10]

he messaged my boss saying he isnt happy the way they are wago'd

my arguement is the work is unfinished and the solution is wago box's but they wont pay for the time to do it

Is any of this live Yet?

 

[Mike Blair]

yes as the control 4 is the lighting system for the house

 

[Leesparkykent]

he messaged my boss saying he isnt happy the way they are wago'd

my arguement is the work is unfinished and the solution is wago box's but they wont pay for the time to do it

To be fair though mike to the customer, if I was in their shoes I wouldn't be willing to pay to correct sub standard work. Couldn't you of installed an enclosure for all the connections of the extended cables or even some trunking and made the connections there?

 

[Mike Blair]

we had contracted work. and the control 4 was aditional work. i had to make sure the contracted work was completed first. so i would be working on the control 4 when i had no more contracted work. soon as i had contracted work i would jump back onto that after i finshed where i was up to on the control 4. but due to disagreements with time etc client didn't want to pay for things

 

[Mike Blair]

truncking would of been hard to install with the ammount of transformers installed there is literally no space

 

[Mike Blair]

what do you guys recommend i do if use where in my shoes?

 

[David M]

truncking would of been hard to install with the ammount of transformers installed there is literally no space

Sounds like it is going to be rather warm in this cupboard, with no space and loads of transformers. Out of interest and bewilderment (no offense) have you accounted for thermal effects?

 

[Leesparkykent]

what do you guys recommend i do if use where in my shoes?

What ever your boss tells you to do. Has your boss got the hump over it with you then?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Sounds like a complete pigs ear. I'd fix it with cable shears and do it properly from the beginning again. Maybe relocate some of the units, maybe build a framework to hold them with less use of wallspace, maybe a more advanced cable management system.

I have snookered myself with wiring and terminating before, being too optimistic with how much kit would fit in a small area and finding the resulting layout too difficult to work in or properly manage the cabling. You just have to stop, backtrack as far as necessary to remove all the compromises and suck up the loss of time and material. But I do tend to work on some very compact, complex gear where you can't fit a smoke packet in the leftover space.

 

[David M]

I would be doing what your boss asks, unless it was non-conforming, potentially dangerous, . If the client is not happy then it is your boss's problem to sort out.

What ever your boss tells you to do. Has your boss got the hump over it with you then?

Unless what he asks is non-compliant, or potentially dangerous. In which case I would refuse to continue until things were resolved.

 

[Mike Blair]

thats my problem theres no space for nothing on there design and i have took over someone else's job 2/3s way though

 

[westward10]

yes as the control 4 is the lighting system for the house

No wonder you are worried it shouldn't really be live,.

 

[David M]

thats my problem theres no space for nothing on there design and i have took over someone else's job 2/3s way though

Been there before on many occasion! And I've often ripped it out in temper and had to start over! I hate bodge jobs!!!

 

[westward10]

Sounds like it is going to be rather warm in this cupboard, with no space and loads of transformers. Out of interest and bewilderment (no offense) have you accounted for thermal effects?

Think you know the answer to this.

 

[Mike Blair]

i have the customer also wiring parts. so when i come back more works been done but by the customer! meaning i have to check all the work and test

 

[freddo]

^That would be the part where I walk away.

 

[westward10]

I think you and all who have posted agree this installation is out of control and as it is live, dangerous. Seems the client has stopped works because he is not happy with the installation methods even though he has also contributed to it. Although this concerns you it is in your bosses and the clients hands, if I were in your shoes I would not be happy it was live. This whole installation needs to be started from scratch preferably with the client in another County, at the least I would want to disconnect it.

 

[Marvo]

Who did the original design and the first half of the installation? Why did they not complete the job they started.

Personally a bunch of loose Wagos without enclosures doesn't scare me partly because I'm in Africa and partly because I've also been on complex control projects that constantly evolve from the original design and sometimes are still evolving even after the installation is completed and the easiest way is temporary connections until everything settles down, then make all the temporary Wago stuff permanent and neat using solder and heatshrink.

 

[westward10]

Who did the original design and the first half of the installation? Why did they not complete the job they started.

Personally a bunch of loose Wagos without enclosures doesn't scare me partly because I'm in Africa and partly because I've also been on complex control projects that constantly evolve from the original design and sometimes are still evolving even after the installation is completed and the easiest way is temporary connections until everything settles down, then make all the temporary Wago stuff permanent and neat using solder and heatshrink.

This is a house and it shouldn't be complex, many hands have made it complex.

 

[Pete999]

what do you guys recommend i do if use where in my shoes?

What does your Boss say about the matter, to be honest Mike I appreciate you want to do the job properly, is your Boss a good mate of yours? or is it a Boss / Employee relationship, I can't see why you are getting involved, let your Boss deal with it.

 

[telectrix]

nothing wrong with this job that a few beers and a punch on the nose won't fix. time for your boss to negotiate with client. not your problem, mike.