Competence

[seftonbarn]

I have just finished a 5 week wonder course. I an waiting for the results of my 2391 exam which I took a couple or 3 Friday's ago. I have a hypothetical question.

I can understand the need to subscribe to an approved competence scheme in order to be able to complete and certify notifiable works without paying the local building control to inspect and test the work (Building Regs). But do you have to be registered to a scheme to carry out periodic inspecting and testing. Surely if you are competent (which I am not I hasten to add), you meet the requirement of BS7671, so why pay several hundred pounds a year to subscribe to a scheme.

 

[jdd]

Above average knowledge of installations are needed for doing PIR's. Professional indemnity is also required. Not sure if you need to be registered to do PIR's though?

 

[habitual]

Depending on your clients and with the qualifications you have or will gain there are no requirements to join a scheme.
However great care should be used because any guidance or suggestions you make based on your findings that turn out to be false can lead you in deep trouble. Experience is the key, and with that experience you will be able to defend any situation.

 

[seftonbarn]

Depending on your clients and with the qualifications you have or will gain there are no requirements to join a scheme.
However great care should be used because any guidance or suggestions you make based on your findings that turn out to be false can lead you in deep trouble. Experience is the key, and with that experience you will be able to defend any situation.

Thanks Habitual. That is a good answer.

 

[Goody]

The requirement to do PIR is being competent. If you are subscribed to an approved competence scheme in order to be able to complete and certify notifiable works without paying the local building control to inspect and test the work (Building Regs), you don't necessarily have to be registered to a scheme to carry out periodic inspecting and testing.

Although NICEIC states, "Periodic inspection reporting is not included within the scope of NICEIC Domestic Installer Scheme". Not sure about what other scheme providers say on this.

 

[RISElectrical]

But you can't expect the unskilled to sit at home on the dole when there is opportunity to better themselves with learning, albeit a 5 week course.

I am not in agreement with a 5 week course at all however with no jobs available there will also be few apprenticeship routes available.

Every skilled worker starts out as an unskilled man looking for work.

 

[alarm man]

But you can't expect the unskilled to sit at home on the dole when there is opportunity to better themselves with learning, albeit a 5 week course.

I am not in agreement with a 5 week course at all however with no jobs available there will also be few apprenticeship routes available.

Every skilled worker starts out as an unskilled man looking for work.

unskilled men sitting at home looking for jobs could try asda,no offence to asda workers,but being a spark isnt like learning how to stack baked beans

 

[RISElectrical]

So when you decided to be a spark, how would you have felt if someone told you that you'd be better stacking beans?

I know a 5 week wonder that in a domestic environment would be as good as a time served spark, now should he have been forced into asda too?

You sound more like your opinions are based upon the lack of work for you, than of being supportive to people trying to learn something.

I just don't think it's right to judge people on training routes taken and a genuine interest in the industry. Each spark is different, some time served sparks don't deserve a job with the standard of work they display

 

[alarm man]

So when you decided to be a spark, how would you have felt if someone told you that you'd be better stacking beans?

I know a 5 week wonder that in a domestic environment would be as good as a time served spark, now should he have been forced into asda too?

You sound more like your opinions are based upon the lack of work for you, than of being supportive to people trying to learn something.

I just don't think it's right to judge people on training routes taken and a genuine interest in the industry. Each spark is different, some time served sparks don't deserve a job with the standard of work they display

as has been said many times before,do it the right way,not the 5 week way..do you ever wonder why agencys are looking for jib saprks for 7.50 ph..pass me the beans..

 

[RISElectrical]

It's not as black and white as that and my original point here was that somebody asking a question doesn't need to be told he is part of a problem.

The OP could for all we know go on to become a really top class spark in 5 years time, using the Electrical Trainee to gain employment and keep on learning.

Not all Electrical Trainee's head for self employment and start endangering the lives of home owners

 

[adiewadie247]

At the risk of alienating people. I (and probably many others) come to learn and discuss. I am lucky I work part time with two experienced electricians who give me pointers on how to do any new (to me) tasks. They don't seem to see me as a threat but as a future pair of safe hands. In return when I am experienced as they are I will take someone under my wing and pass on the favour. Surely this is how it should be and probably the main purpose of this site. If someone comes on the forum to ask a question they shouldn't be subjected to insults and/or ridicule because they might not come back but could still be out there working on installations... without the benefit of learning from others who have had the experience they are trying to gain!

 

[DurhamSparky]

^^^ Agreed..!

although as i have said many time before i am neither "officially" time served or Electrical Trainee!

i also know people who do Electrical Trainee courses and many of them have proved to be satisfactory in there ability! and they know there limits which is good...!

 

[alarm man]

It's not as black and white as that and my original point here was that somebody asking a question doesn't need to be told he is part of a problem.

The OP could for all we know go on to become a really top class spark in 5 years time, using the Electrical Trainee to gain employment and keep on learning.

Not all Electrical Trainee's head for self employment and start endangering the lives of home owners

they are, you dont have to 16 and straight into an apprenticeship to be a spark,but you do have to do it the right way,you cant learn in 5 weeks or 5 months,if Your 30 and want to be a spark,get your proper quals the long way..dont pay the leeches your hard earned money because ..a.. your feeding the devil and b..your putting the same men you want to be out of work by working for free or less than min wage..

 

[JD6400]

I do not think i have ever been asked for a job by anyone who has or was about to take a 5 week course , and to be honest i am not sure if i would take them on , as it personally seem's a bit of a insult to think it is possible to bypass a college course for a few days in a training centre ?
On the other hand we are more than happy to give mostly anyone a start even if it is the first ever time they have picked up a screw driver , and will back them as far as possible if they do decide to do a long term course , be it day release evenings or even by distance learning .
As long as you are working in the industry at the same time the skills learnt on site and at college can be far better matched , compared to just banging it all in at one go !
I know this is in a ideal world , but in the long run experience is king and that is plain and simply it , it can not be bypassed .

 

[HandySparks]

Above average knowledge of installations are needed for doing PIR's.

I'd agree with that.

Professional indemnity is also required.

But not that.

You may choose to spend your money on PI insurance, but there's no requirement to have it. I've yet to hear of anyone making a successful claim on their PI insurance for PIR/EICR work.

 

[Strima]

I am a Electrical Trainee. After 23 years in the Army I had no choice but to change careers. I could have gone into the transport industry but I decided to move into something that I believe I'm more suited to doing and that actually interests me.

I could have gone down the college route and tried to gain an apprenticeship but at 40 years old the chances of anyone taking me on at that level are slim to none. I have a family I need to provide for, the same as everyone else, so I need to get out there and get earning and gain more experience where I can.

I'm struggling to find work but when I do get some I put in 100% to do a good and safe job, I don't try and bluff and have found that honesty is always best when dealing with real sparks. I have never found any resentment out on the ground and have never been called a job stealer. Quite the opposite, respect is a two way street, I may get the crap jobs like burying cables and crawling through 50 years of cobwebs but I need to start somewhere and gain the knowledge and experience that the time served have. We all have to start somewhere.

I find it disappointing that some, read minority, members of such a highly respected forum and trade feel the need to constantly dig at the Electrical Trainee's who ask genuine questions and seek advice of their peers rather than leave an installation in a dangerous state. Some comments on here would deter some people in asking questions.

I could have gone on a full blown rant but what would that achieve?

Call me a job stealer etc, I don't care. I care about putting food on the table and clothes on my kids backs, do you honestly think I have any qualms about taking someone else's job?

 

[madmac]

"Call me a job stealer etc, I don't care. I care about putting food on the table and clothes on my kids backs, do you honestly think I have any qualms about taking someone else's job?"

This whole argument rolled into one simple and selfish answer!

When it comes down to it, you HAVE to feed your kids and provide for your family, of course no time served spark has any of these worries!!!

Do it the right way, keep yourself and Joe Public safe and you'll never look back!!! Do the Electrical Trainee courses and you'll always be not sure!!!

Put yourself in the boots of a time served spark foe a moment and you'll not be happy either!!!

 

[JD6400]

Hi Strima , i am going to pull you up on one of your comments .
You say like real sparks ?
Well if you are doing the job under the supervision of others and are on the learn , then you are what i would call a real sparks !
All be it lacking in knowledge at the moment , which i am sure you will be backing up with further courses .
It is a shame that it was not possible to find a suitable college course for your self from the start , be it day release , evenings , or as said before even distance learning as a last resort ! As this would (in my humble opinion) have been more of a incentive to a employer to take you on now , maybe ?
But good luck to you and keep on sparking !

 

[brman]

It is funny, we keep on seeing these Electrical Trainee bashing threads and they never make sense. Training is just that, training. Everyone has to do it. End of discussion.

I reckon the mods should ban the phrase Electrical Trainee and we would all get on a lot better :lol:

 

[SW1970]

I've yet to hear of anyone making a successful claim on their PI insurance for PIR/EICR work.

And you won't either because PI settlements are usually confidential, including the respondent, in this case an electrician. Why would an electrician who has got it badly wrong, then publicise a claim on his policy of probably many thousands and potentially tens of thousands. It could lead to reputation damage (as well as being quite embarrassing) so he's unlikely to do it.