EAL Course in Inspection and Testing

[D Skelton]

See like you that was what I thought so I did my homework. I spoke with several large companies in the area to seek their opinion. At the end of the day I'm likely to be working for them and they were all happy with either EAL or c&g.

Yes but are they specifically after a T&I qual? If I put an advert out for an installation electrician and had a requirement that they had passed a C&G core qualification and an NVQ level 3 or equivalent then whether they held a C&G or an EAL T&I qual would be irrelevant. As long as they held the qualification that I wanted then that's all that matters.

The other thing you might want to factor in to the equation is who it is you sopke to at those companies, because if it was some office lacky then they're unlikely to know what you're talking about anyway. If it was a director and he is prepared to accept EAL or C&G quals then I would be willing to bet that he/she holds neither, thus has no knowledge of the difference.

The main issue is no provider in this area within an hours travel
Is doing c&g. I would have had to do it as a distance learning course which is a joke.

I would travel as long as it took to get C&G over EAL!

Of course an open book exam will be easier

There we go then, problem solved, the EAL T&I exam is as much use to an employer when it comes to employing someone knowledgable in testing and inspection procedures as a chocolate fire guard!

but the exam isn't based on your memory it's about doing it correctly and to the regulations. If your attitude is you don't need the book the your a genius. You'd never learn all the regulations in the time scale but you will learn a lot fair do.

Then any old muppet can pick up the book and pass. Not everyone is going to have fundamental knowledge of T&I are they and can pass a closed book exam? In fact only about 10% of electricians do!

Just because you have the on site guide there in front of you not everything in the exam is found in the on site guide the only book you can take in. Even then when it's there you still need to know how to calculate and use the information correctly.

"Here you are Mr Jones, now, I know you have no formal training whatsoever but in order to be a heart surgeon you have to pass this one exam", "Ok, but I won't know the answers will I?", "Don't worry, here's a book on everything you need to know about heart surgery, not all the answers will be in that book but most of them will be".......

"Congratulations, you passed, you are now a qualified heart surgeon!"

Also if it was so much easier the pass rate would be 100% for everyone that takes the exam surely?? Which isn't the case, if you don't know what to look for in the book or how I interpret it then it's useless

Erm, actually, every single training provider that boasts a 100% pass rate for their testing and inspection trainees is teaching the EAL. They could not boast that in a million years with the C&G one!

 

[pitkin2020]

It's pointless arguing with you it's your opinion and I'm not goin to be working you. The people I am
Likely to be working for accept it an that's all that is relevant.

I don't know the testing and inspection exam is open book haven't got that far yet but til be backed with actual practical assessments I expect like the course I'm currently on.

Wow you must be pretty rich if you could afford to travel so far all day to attend college everyday. I have to work so travelling to Exeter approx an hour to an hour and half away four times a week isn't feasable

 

[D Skelton]

It's pointless arguing with you it's your opinion and I'm not goin to be working you.

Erm, nope, not just my opinion mate. Fact. That's why it's pointless arguing. Open book is easier than closed book, even you agreed on this. EALs T&I qual has never been and probably will never be industry recognised. I'd advise you to spend your time looking for somewhere to do your level 3 I&T with a C&G centre rather than getting shirty with us on here just because we are being truthful about your inferior qualification.

The people I am likely to be working for accept it an that's all that is relevant.

They probably only accept it because it isn't relevant to the job application, I say this because you state you are on the level 2 course, which is pretty much a worthless qualification anyway. If I&T quals were actually relevant to your job application they'd want to see level 3 I&T quals minimum. That's why I say when you get round to doing your level 3 T&I quals, make sure they're C&G!

I don't know the testing and inspection exam is open book haven't got that far yet but til be backed with actual practical assessments I expect like the course I'm currently on.

It is open book, that is the problem, and so is the practical.

Wow you must be pretty rich if you could afford to travel so far all day to attend college everyday. I have to work so travelling to Exeter approx an hour to an hour and half away four times a week isn't feasable

For the six or so days it would take to get a C&G T&I qual over an EAL one you don't need to be that rich do you?!? In a minoirity of cases you just have to be prepared to travel a little further.

 

[pitkin2020]

Where have you got 6 extra days from on a full time course?

 

[D Skelton]

T&I courses are 6/7/8 days only, I'm not talking about a full time 3 year course, nor are you given the title of the thread?

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I don't know if i have replied to this earlier, but as i work for a centre that is both EAL and C&G accredited, i will.

There is no difference to the requirements of the EAL or C&G qualifications, the assessments and centre resources are identical, the qualification is identical. They both carry the same weight. People can have their opinions and preferences, but these are the facts about the quals.

The EAL written exams are open book, and i think the online one is as well. The practical tasks are open book anyway, as there has to be clean copies of BS7671, GN3 and the OSG available to candidates whether they are doing EAL or C&G.

The C&G closed book exams is an exam on what you can remember, and some of the crap they ask is badly worded, and not relevant to electrical inspection and testing. That aside, who in there right mind needs to recall from memory 3 locations as defined in BS7671 that in certain parts of them must not have a TNCS system! I am sorry but this does not need memorising, neither does things like voltage drop tables or insulation resistance tables etc etc etc, this is why we refer to reference books, the memorising comes with experience and repetition. Is it really important to remember Electricity at Work REGULATIONS, Health and safety at work ACT, and then get shafted for getting a word or two mixed up……I don't think so! so what is the crime in looking it up. There is no Electrician out there who is crap just because they can't remember to get a word in the right place, but this minor slip up will have no doubt been the difference between a pass or a fail for someone, and i personally think it stinks.

The EAL way tests your ability to check and find out the correct way of doing things if you are unsure. I agree we should know all of the basics such as the testing sequence, proving dead etc, but as for having to remember it all, well thats just bollox in my opinion.

For all of you out there who slate the NICEIC, think yourselves lucky that you don't need to deal with C&G.


Rant over,

 

[D Skelton]

They both carry the same weight.

You have to say that, you are delivering it!

The EAL written exams are open book, and i think the online one is as well. The practical tasks are open book anyway, as there has to be clean copies of BS7671, GN3 and the OSG available to candidates whether they are doing EAL or C&G.

The C&G closed book exams is an exam on what you can remember, and some of the crap they ask is badly worded, and not relevant to electrical inspection and testing. That aside, who in there right mind needs to recall from memory 3 locations as defined in BS7671 that in certain parts of them must not have a TNCS system! I am sorry but this does not need memorising, neither does things like voltage drop tables or insulation resistance tables etc etc etc, this is why we refer to reference books, the memorising comes with experience and repetition. Is it really important to remember Electricity at Work REGULATIONS, Health and safety at work ACT, and then get shafted for getting a word or two mixed up……I don't think so! so what is the crime in looking it up. There is no Electrician out there who is crap just because they can't remember to get a word in the right place, but this minor slip up will have no doubt been the difference between a pass or a fail for someone, and i personally think it stinks.

But it is important to remember the correct sequence of tests to carry out on a ring final circuit for example. It is important to remember the process to follow prior to carrying out inspection and testing. It is important to remember how to correctly set inspection and testing samples. It is important to remember the correct procedure for determining whether or not supplementary bonding in a bathroom is adequate.

The EAL way tests your ability to check and find out the correct way of doing things if you are unsure. I agree we should know all of the basics such as the testing sequence, proving dead etc, but as for having to remember it all, well thats just bollox in my opinion.

The EAL way tests your ability to read a book!

For all of you out there who slate the NICEIC, think yourselves lucky that you don't need to deal with C&G.

I agree, I know a fair bit about dealing with C&G, that said, C&G still have more weight than any other awarding body in this trade!

Would you rather a degree from Oxford or from Gary's Degrees Ltd?

 

[Sparkie30]

You have to say that, you are delivering it!



But it is important to remember the correct sequence of tests to carry out on a ring final circuit for example. It is important to remember the process to follow prior to carrying out inspection and testing. It is important to remember how to correctly set inspection and testing samples. It is important to remember the correct procedure for determining whether or not supplementary bonding in a bathroom is adequate.



The EAL way tests your ability to read a book!



I agree, I know a fair bit about dealing with C&G, that said, C&G still have more weight than any other awarding body in this trade!

Would you rather a degree from Oxford or from Gary's Degrees Ltd?

Jesus mate, you don't like it when people have different opinion to you.
I totally agree with sirkit in regards to C&G, they will fail you unless you answer exactly as it's on their books.

 

[D Skelton]

I couldn't give a monkeys if someone disagrees with me, that is what debate is for, and that is why I like forums like this.

I very much respect Howard and his knowledge and would never accuse him of talking $hite, but I will happily and respectfully disagree with him on this point.

 

[dazza1981]

I couldn't give a monkeys if someone disagrees with me, that is what debate is for, and that is why I like forums like this.

I very much respect Howard and his knowledge and would never accuse him of talking $hite, but I will happily and respectfully disagree with him on this point.

Agreed this forum would be a little boring if everybody agreed and there were no debates.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

I couldn't give a monkeys if someone disagrees with me, that is what debate is for, and that is why I like forums like this.

I very much respect Howard and his knowledge and would never accuse him of talking $hite, but I will happily and respectfully disagree with him on this point.

And i have to agree with his earlier comment, C&G will always be the preferred badge to have, at least for the foreseeable future anyway.

Cheers……………Howard

 

[namco]

Hello all, my first post so go easy on me.
I qualified with c&g 17th edition and 2392, 2391. And EAL level 2
I'm now looking to join NAPIT (pockets aren't deep enough to join NICEIC), but napit tell me they have updated their requirements and ask me to update my EAL qualification to level 3, which they can provide (240+vat).
Now after reading this long thread with many good points, are what napit asking for just a way to get me to go on their course, I understand that qualifications need to be updated and reassessed from time to time but from certain comments about how the eal qualification is a watered down c&g 2391, are napit just trying to get more money out of me, like everyone else in the system.

Many thanks

 

[LVSparks]

I agree with D Skelton and the others. This is a mickey mouse course.
Im 2391, I studied hard and long for this exam and this was after years of experience.
30 -40% pass rate says it all.
A lad in my firm has just passed this open book multiple choice exam(what a joke lol). He has no experience of real life periodic jobs, only initial verifications which any decent spark can do without a qual.
This qualification will put electricians out on jobs doing periodic inspections and missing valuable observations etc and clients will be none the wiser.

 

[grandfortune]

i also passed my 2394 and 95 closed book exam not a fart arsed dumbed down version

i know plenty of employers that wouldnt have you on that 2391 only

 

[trev]

i know plenty of employers that wouldnt have you on that 2391 only

As the older lads leave the trade the 2394/5 will become the "go to" I&T qual. I've got it on pretty good authority that it's not much different and is equally valuable.

 

[jamsey]

As the older lads leave the trade the 2394/5 will become the "go to" I&T qual. I've got it on pretty good authority that it's not much different and is equally valuable.

im a old fart been in the trade 15 years and always been told that because i can do it i dont need the qualification (piece of paper) but now im back in the job market alls i get are questions like "have you got this certificate?" i am booked on the next EAL course in my area as its cheaper and the NIC told me they recognise it they are the main reasons for me and ill let you know how i get on and what its like...

 

[Leesparkykent]

im a old fart been in the trade 15 years and always been told that because i can do it i dont need the qualification (piece of paper) but now im back in the job market alls i get are questions like "have you got this certificate?" i am booked on the next EAL course in my area as its cheaper and the NIC told me they recognise it they are the main reasons for me and ill let you know how i get on and what its like...

Its open book exam isn't it the EAL testing and inspection qualification? IMO it doesn't hold the same weight as the C&G 2391 or 2394/5.

 

[trev]

The NIC may well recognise it mate. The thing is though, the NIC are not the ones who will be giving you a job.
15 years in the trade does not make you an old fart either. You'll be a slight breeze after 20, strong flatulence after 25 then 30 will give you proper Old Fart status.

 

[Des 56]

30 will give you proper Old Fart status.

I'm afraid I'm at the stage where even old fart is but a distant memory:bigcry:

 

[Engineer54]

I honestly can't see the point (and never have done) of open book exams, what are they actually proving to either the student or to anyone else, ...that you can read a book?? One thing's for sure, none of these open book examinations warrant a level 3 rating. Oh and it might seem like bollox to some, but the whole point of an examination is to gauge what you have learnt and have retained in the brain box after completing a subjects course!! Hell it's been the basis of examinations for hundreds of years in just about every country in the world, but now it's all bollox is it?? I think we all know where the bollox lay's!! lol!!

It seems that everything in the world of education from schools to colleges, now resolves around making things easier to enable those not so gifted able to pass exams that realistically shouldn't of been offered the course(s) in the first place.