EAL Course in Inspection and Testing

[ian.settle1]

I honestly can't see the point (and never have done) of open book exams, what are they actually proving to either the student or to anyone else, ...that you can read a book?? One thing's for sure, none of these open book examinations warrant a level 3 rating. Oh and it might seem like bollox to some, but the whole point of an examination is to gauge what you have learnt and have retained in the brain box after completing a subjects course!! Hell it's been the basis of examinations for hundreds of years in just about every country in the world, but now it's all bollox is it?? I think we all know where the bollox lay's!! lol!!

It seems that everything in the world of education from schools to colleges, now resolves around making things easier to enable those not so gifted able to pass exams that realistically shouldn't of been offered the course(s) in the first place.

The 17th edition is an open book exam as it is not what you know but one of you know were to look for the correct reg.

Personally I think if it was a closed book exam hardly any one would pass.

 

[Engineer54]

The 17th edition is an open book exam as it is not what you know but one of you know were to look for the correct reg.

Personally I think if it was a closed book exam hardly any one would pass.

I just find that excuse so lame, why if that's the case even bother with a final exam??.... Still not worth, with any stretching of the imagination a level 3 rating, that's just a pure nonsense!!


You're probably right, and seeing as this is basically the main qualification these 17 day and Electrical Trainee actually hold, it may have served to seriously curtail the numbers of these chancers if it were a closed book exam!! ...lol!!

 

[UNG]

I honestly can't see the point (and never have done) of open book exams, what are they actually proving to either the student or to anyone else, ...that you can read a book?? One thing's for sure, none of these open book examinations warrant a level 3 rating. Oh and it might seem like bollox to some, but the whole point of an examination is to gauge what you have learnt and have retained in the brain box after completing a subjects course!! Hell it's been the basis of examinations for hundreds of years in just about every country in the world, but now it's all bollox is it?? I think we all know where the bollox lay's!! lol!!

It seems that everything in the world of education from schools to colleges, now resolves around making things easier to enable those not so gifted able to pass exams that realistically shouldn't of been offered the course(s) in the first place.

Have never understood all this level 2, level 3 to give a comparison of knowledge level between various industries having a level 3 in coffee making has no comparison in the electrical industry as it's part of a first year apprentice's duties the thing is an exam is what it is it is a test of retained knowledge

It can't be that far away that the exam options for answers will be

1. Use the book
2. Ask a forum
3. Phone a friend
4. All of the above

The problem with the industry is that people taking courses are being taught to pass the exam and not to understand why the answer is what it is, all too many places now run the course based on past papers and getting students to learn the answers and regurgitate them parrot fashion in the exam

 

[Engineer54]

Have never understood all this level 2, level 3 to give a comparison of knowledge level between various industries having a level 3 in coffee making has no comparison in the electrical industry as it's part of a first year apprentice's duties the thing is an exam is what it is it is a test of retained knowledge

It can't be that far away that the exam options for answers will be

1. Use the book
2. Ask a forum
3. Phone a friend
4. All of the above

The problem with the industry is that people taking courses are being taught to pass the exam and not to understand why the answer is what it is, all too many places now run the course based on past papers and getting students to learn the answers and regurgitate them parrot fashion in the exam

Couldn't agree more with you

 

[CH STEWART]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

 

[Des 56]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

I fail to understand except maybe profiteering, how or why this initial verification ticket exists or why it needs promoting as some sort of industry achievement

It is a natural part of the training of any electrician, he most certainly should not need such a qualification if that training is adequate
Where did this particular verification nonsense begin?

 

[ian.settle1]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

What the NICEIC recognise and what an employer recognise are 2 totally different things.

 

[Sparkie30]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

EAL is an open book exam, my mate did it.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

Clearly states open book exam! You get to take guidance not 3 in the exam with you.

EAL Level 3 Award In The Periodic Inspection, Testing And Certification Of Electrical Installations SPECIAL OFFER - Total Electrical Training

 

[Engineer54]

Hi I completed the Initial Verification and Inspection and Testing course at the NICEIC training facility at Chesterfield, the course content is the same whether you opt for the C&G exams or the EAL exams and just to clarify the EAL is not open book and the NICEIC recognise both qualifications.

They also recognise 17 day whizzers and electrical trainee's as being trained to competent status!! Now what does that tell you about NICEIC??

 

[Adam_glover18]

I have read threw all the thread and there seems to me most people think the eal version is a waste of time and everyone who passes it are useless too.I find that rather irritating because I have done that course not my choice but my employer chose it.
I believe if you can pass the eal exam you can pass the c+g version as long as you put the time and effort in.
I work along side lads who have the 2391 exam and there no different from myself.
To be fair I had my reservations about the course but the jib and my company recognize the qualification so I suppose it's not that bad off a qualification.
If you read threw all of my reply and still awake you did well lol

 

[Leesparkykent]

I have read threw all the thread and there seems to me most people think the eal version is a waste of time and everyone who passes it are useless too.I find that rather irritating because I have done that course not my choice but my employer chose it.
I believe if you can pass the eal exam you can pass the c+g version as long as you put the time and effort in.
I work along side lads who have the 2391 exam and there no different from myself.
To be fair I had my reservations about the course but the jib and my company recognize the qualification so I suppose it's not that bad off a qualification.
If you read threw all of my reply and still awake you did well lol

Thats fair enough IMO you would be mad to turn down a qualification that you're employer is willing to pay for. I don't think an exam where you get to take guidance note 3 in with you can be compared as equal to the 2391.

 

[Adam_glover18]

I totally agree with you its not a equal to the closed book exam but i think it doesn't make me less of a spark than someone with the 2391 I can only do what exam is out infront of me lol . I would of personally chose c+g because it's the more known exam but you still need to know what to do to pass the exam

 

[charlie76]

Alright - Old thread but some interesting views and also some narrow minded views. I am currently considering the C+G2394/95 and also the EAL equivalent. The training centre i'm looking at offer either one for a snip over £1000. I rang and asked them why the EAL is open book and surely it is easier.

The answer is OFQUAL the regulator has said to C+G and all training providers that the exams should be open book, C+G have decided to ignore the regulator and remain closed book. The reason they are pushing for open book is not a money making scam as OFQUAL do not make their money by churning out "Low grade sparks", the reason they say is that in a real situation on site you have an issue, you can turn to reference the regs, GN's etc so having a closed book exam is not realistic. A valid point i'm sure!

My personal view is that the fundamental electrical theory should be engrained in your head and you should be able to answer a theory based question closed book. With regards regulations, testing practices and procedures etc, I think you would be foolish to think memorising it all is a positive. With changes in practice and procedure issued in new editions and amendments, you need to be making continual reference to the current editions of these publications, not pulling up something from memory you learnt in the 4th edition of BS7671 issued in 1903.

The industry is dynamic and so are practices, procedures, materials, technologies used. You need to be continually educating yourself, not memorising the current standards and practices because you feel it is more prestigious to sit an exam which forces you to recall from memory the current regulations.

In summary, and in my view, if the standard and level of questioning is the same on the C+G and the EAL, I would say there would be a better chance of achieving a higher pass on the EAL. However I think the EAL concept is more realistic to working life in that you should have reference to books to help resolve a technical issue.

 

[shanky887614]

Alright - Old thread but some interesting views and also some narrow minded views. I am currently considering the C+G2394/95 and also the EAL equivalent. The training centre i'm looking at offer either one for a snip over £1000. I rang and asked them why the EAL is open book and surely it is easier.

The answer is OFQUAL the regulator has said to C+G and all training providers that the exams should be open book, C+G have decided to ignore the regulator and remain closed book. The reason they are pushing for open book is not a money making scam as OFQUAL do not make their money by churning out "Low grade sparks", the reason they say is that in a real situation on site you have an issue, you can turn to reference the regs, GN's etc so having a closed book exam is not realistic. A valid point i'm sure!

My personal view is that the fundamental electrical theory should be engrained in your head and you should be able to answer a theory based question closed book. With regards regulations, testing practices and procedures etc, I think you would be foolish to think memorising it all is a positive. With changes in practice and procedure issued in new editions and amendments, you need to be making continual reference to the current editions of these publications, not pulling up something from memory you learnt in the 4th edition of BS7671 issued in 1903.

The industry is dynamic and so are practices, procedures, materials, technologies used. You need to be continually educating yourself, not memorising the current standards and practices because you feel it is more prestigious to sit an exam which forces you to recall from memory the current regulations.

In summary, and in my view, if the standard and level of questioning is the same on the C+G and the EAL, I would say there would be a better chance of achieving a higher pass on the EAL. However I think the EAL concept is more realistic to working life in that you should have reference to books to help resolve a technical issue.

good points but it doesnt stop the stubbon old goats that want to see certificates awarded by city and guilds, im torn if im honest i dont think you will have a lot of time to reference things in the 2394/2395 because of the exam length but i would happily be proven wrong (im planning on doing it this year)

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Some interesting (and very concerning) opinions on this thread.

Originally I posted in this thread a couple of years ago, but I've just re-read the entire thread as I'm (hopefully) a couple of months away from completing my 3 year apprenticeship. As I have self-funded my studies it is still worrying that EAL is not considered to be "worth the paper it is written on" by (some) individuals / employers, despite JIB & NICEIC recommending EAL as their preferred training provider.

I take on board people's opions of the open / closed book debate as I see both sides of the coin most days on site ... in the real world you would confirm via BS7671 / OSG / GN3 if you need to. However, I still know many electricians that don't have 17th edition books, let alone the updated qualifications. Therefore, just because "it's always been like that & that's how I learnt it 36 years ago" is a BS argument in my opinion!!

My concerns is that I may contact individuals / companies who share similar views to some individuals on this forum and I do not know whether to gain a C&G I&T qualification or EAL. I say this as pretty much all colleges in the South of England have left C&G and only use EAL for providing qualifications. Thus, potentially costing me work in the future because I may not "support the same team as you"!

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Having just done some research on C&G I&T qualifications, I came across this little beauty ...
"This is a full time 16 week course initially. 7 weeks for level 2, 7 weeks for level 3, 3 days for C&G 2382, 2 days for C&G 2377, 5 days for a combined C&G 2394/2395 and 1 day allocated for the practical Inspection & testing. The NVQ and AM2 will follow on from here but the dates for assessment are more likely to be determined by you. The cost is £8195.00 including VAT" - this is offered by https://www.ableskills.co.uk/electrical-courses/jib-gold-card-electrical-training-course/

So it seems to me that C&G are also offering a backdoor into the industry which will allow (potentially) inexperienced electricians to show a C&G qualification to the industry - which seems to be prefer by some.

My point is that if all providers are offering shorter quicker qualifications that is the industries fault, not the trainee / apprentice. We can only work with the tools given to us by colleges etc and the knowledge / experience of individuals willing to give people time to learn / work alongside them.

 

[Skimpy Wan]

Also just done some C&G closed book passed exams (without having books to hand) and they are in no way different to EAL.

I guess therefore that I will be paying to gain the C&G 2394 & 2395, rather than EAL I&T qualifications, just to keep the "old school" happy & not hinder my chance of gaining work in the future (as having done some employment / job searches the majority of individuals as for 2394 & 2395 qualifications, specifically, rather than started "or equivalent").

 

[shanky887614]

Also just done some C&G closed book passed exams (without having books to hand) and they are in no way different to EAL.

I guess therefore that I will be paying to gain the C&G 2394 & 2395, rather than EAL I&T qualifications, just to keep the "old school" happy & not hinder my chance of gaining work in the future (as having done some employment / job searches the majority of individuals as for 2394 & 2395 qualifications, specifically, rather than started "or equivalent").

look at it this was, the only guys in the office in a lot of electrical firms are old buggers or crap with there hands ^^

the exception is if they own the firm

 

[Skimpy Wan]

It just makes it more of a minefield when trying to get qualified & then look for work if companies dispute what the industry states / permits. It goes back to people only knowing that they knew as the point they qualified and not accepting changing within the industry - this goes for regs / equipment / qualifications, the lot!