Electrician has cut holes to close to joist ends

[JazzyB]

Hi

Employed electrician to wire extra sockets in bedrooms upstairs in an empty house. However I have noticed when I lifted floor board up to do other work, that the cables are running through holes close to ends of the joists, not within the safe zones, .25 & .4, as with Building Regs.

Looking for advise on how to approach this, with them.

Thanks
Jazz

 

[LukeD]

Get back , show regs, ask them to make good (strap joists with extra timber ?) .Dont pay any balance until done.

 

[buzzlightyear]

What type property is it new, old..and what depth is the joists.

 

[JazzyB]

Get back , show regs, ask them to make good (strap joists with extra timber ?) .Dont pay any balance until done.

Thanks will do, was quite shocked when I saw what they had done, at the time so didn’t now about the regs, but it just looked wrong. It was then I checked on the rules about cutting holes in joists.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Thanks will do, was quite shocked when I saw what they had done, at the time so didn’t now about the regs, but it just looked wrong. It was then I checked on the rules about cutting holes in

How big is the holes and pic would be nice.

 

[JazzyB]

What type property is it new, old..and what depth is the joists.

It’s 1970’s detached house, without measuring the joists for sure I would guess they are about 50 x 122.

 

[SJD]

I would check are these new holes incorrectly cut, or were they existing? If existing holes, then the electrician has done nothing wrong in using them.

 

[Dustydazzler]

In the old days I always used to drill my holes about 300mm from the wall, did it this way for many many years. Then someone pointed out the .25/4 rule so I now come in roughly .25 the span

 

[JazzyB]

How big is the holes and pic would be nice.

Holes are about 25mm, will be back at property next weekend so will post some pictures then.

 

[JazzyB]

I would check are these new holes incorrectly cut, or were they existing? If existing holes, then the electrician has done nothing wrong in using them.

 

[JazzyB]

Definitely new holes, as existing cables run further back from the joist ends.

 

[SJD]

Definitely new holes, as existing cables run further back from the joist ends.

I would check for recent sawdust debris. I often come across existing holes in older properties e.g. from removed pipework, or even once in a while a whole line of pre-drilled holes that didn't get used (nice to find, sometimes).

 

[mattg4321]

The position of the holes will be fine as long as there are no other sections of the same part of the joist removed. Ie notches in the same area of the joist.

The regs are only as they are to give a clear zone for notches and for holes so there is no confusion between plumber/electrician.

Holes always used to be drilled nearer the walls as dusty says.

Sometimes it’s not practical to take up the part of the floor that is over the ‘correct’ section of the joist. It’s often not possible to see the span of the joist until you have access either. Your electrician has potentially done nothing wrong imo.

 

[telectrix]

as above. as the joists are c.1970, they will not be flimsy oven baked crappy wood like today's builds and will not collapse when farted on with > 1Nm of metric force per ssquare centipede when the ambient temperature is outside the range 20 -21deg. and the humidity is above 60%.

 

[Grant1987]

The position of the holes will be fine as long as there are no other sections of the same part of the joist removed. Ie notches in the same area of the joist.

The regs are only as they are to give a clear zone for notches and for holes so there is no confusion between plumber/electrician.

Holes always used to be drilled nearer the walls as dusty says.

Sometimes it’s not practical to take up the part of the floor that is over the ‘correct’ section of the joist. It’s often not possible to see the span of the joist until you have access either. Your electrician has potentially done nothing wrong imo.

I agree I would feel hard done by if one of my customers had lifted floorboards and inspecting my routing of cables. I would/Do use existing holes where necessary although I tend to stick to the rule of thumb of 50mm from top or bottom of joist but I certainly don’t stress over routing my cables on existing holes. Not sure who said on here on not paying the spark but that’s ridiculous. Are there any other issues or is it just the routing that your not happy with?

 

[MJPD29]

I'd be highly doubtful it'll make any difference and probably a high chance that the majority if not all of the notches were already there.

 

[Mike Johnson]

How happy would any of you be if a Structural Engineer told you that the size of cable you specified is over the top and can be smaller.

OSG 7.3.1

 

[Grant1987]

How happy would any of you be if a Structural Engineer told you that the size of cable you specified is over the top and can be smaller.

OSG 7.3.1

Yes I appreciate that but drilling new holes surely would make matters worse wouldn’t it? I’m just counter debating ideally 50mm below top or bottom is perfect but using existing holes which have been used in millions of properties throughout the years doesn’t warrant non payment surely or classed as unsafe structurally

 

[Mike Johnson]

Did not mention non payment, just the fact there are specific place's where holes should be drilled or notches made.

 

[brianmoooore]

It's not a 'safe zone', it's a structural strength thing, and in most cases is absolute bo**ox, depending on how the end of the joist is supported
Nothing to do with separating pipes from cables either, since most pipes these days are fitted through drilled holes as well.