EU Brexit - How will you vote given the latest "news"

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

So you support corruption and false accounting then

Well you've got me there, if I disagree with you I support corruption and false accounting.

So are you saying the past governments should have realised that they needed to prepare for the immigration problem before it happened

You've got that wrong ( there's me supporting corruption and false accounting again) I'm saying it's not the fault of immigration but the fault of government.

With regard to the NHS this country is seen as a soft touch by every man and his dog foreigners are taking medical holidays for free medical care and operations and travel to the UK with no insurance yet we go abroad and travel insurance is a must as you don't get treatment without it

Bearing in mind that this is a debate about the EU, you are wrong again. It costs the NHS less to treat visiting EU nationals visiting this country than it does EU countries treating UK visitors to their countries.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

With regard to the NHS this country is seen as a soft touch by every man and his dog foreigners are taking medical holidays for free medical care and operations and travel to the UK with no insurance yet we go abroad and travel insurance is a must as you don't get treatment without it

That cost the NHS less than 20 million last year, that's hardly the billions some would have use beleive - sorry but you can't blame every man and his dog for this one

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I wonder how many Doctors, Nurses, care workers and other health care professionals came here as immigrants, or are the offspring of immigrants.

I'd wager a lot of money that those figures would look favourably at even more immigration, from both inside and out with the EU - more willing workers is a route towards a growing economy, M's Merkel quickly had that sussed.

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Turkey will never be full members, and I'm glad of that - but Darkwood you are simply regurgitating zenophobic propaganda

The vast majority of Turks don't want to join.


The vast majority of Turks don't trust the EU


There has to be aunanimous vote in favour of new member states joining.


Merkel is anti Turkey joining.


Juncker is anti Turkey joining ..... and there's plenty more in the anti camp


Their economy doesn't come close to compliance with the requirements of AC


Their justice system doesn't come close to compliance with the requirements of AC (and its moving further away)


Their freedom of movement and association laws dont come close to compliance with the requirements of AC


Their anti competition policys doesn't come close to compliance with the requirements of AC


Their compliance with most of the chapters is at best "moderately prepared"


They may well be conviently geographically located for "our" military assests but there is no bigger picture, there is no plan for them in 2020 (prove me wrong please) - Darkwood your rhetoric might convince a few here, but not everyone is so gulable.

If this is all rhetoric for the gullable then explain why the EU is buckling to Turkeys demands, and why this is even been discussed at the EU conferences, why has Visa restrictions been lifted to 78million turks to allow its citizens free movement into the EU (that and the relations we already have is not far off been a member), add the fact that we have just deposited 3 billion euros into Turkey as they demanded it or they wouldn't co-operate with helping with immigration and it sounds like we are already half way there to them been a member, this is rarely a discussion point in UK media but I follow European politics and this is a very big story over there and has been for some time, steps to bring turkey into the EU have been going on for decades but like you say they have a lot of things to do first but here's the problem. I agree that not many want Turkey in the EU but its already happening due to the strong position Turkey holds and its blatant blackmailing of the EU... look it up its not here say and these reports are been written across all the media so its not right or left wing propaganda.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I wonder how many Doctors, Nurses, care workers and other health care professionals came here as immigrants, or are the offspring of immigrants.

I'd wager a lot of money that those figures would look favourably at even more immigration, from both inside and out with the EU - more willing workers is a route towards a growing economy, M's Merkel quickly had that sussed.

Where my misses works in the NHS they recruited a few from Eastern Europe to fill a skills gap. Their training and more worryingly their competence was woefully short of UK standards - needless to say they have been managed "out" of the hospital.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

Where my misses works in the NHS they recruited a few from Eastern Europe to fill a skills gap. Their training and more worryingly their competence was woefully short of UK standards - needless to say they have been managed "out" of the hospital.

My father in law had his knees replaced by a Polish surgeon (reputedly the best the NHS has), who works for the NHS, on the recommendation of his English consultant, apparently our NHS just just doesn't have enough homegrown skills.

 

[Darkwood]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

My father in law had his knees replaced by a Polish surgeon (reputedly the best the NHS has), who works for the NHS, on the recommendation of his English consultant, apparently our NHS just just doesn't have enough homegrown skills.

On this one I have to agree, instead of educating our own, our succesive governments have let our own down leaving a skills gap, but I also see Murdochs point as I see this in our trade a lot.

 

[Octopus]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

My father in law had his knees replaced by a Polish surgeon (reputedly the best the NHS has), who works for the NHS, on the recommendation of his English consultant, apparently our NHS just just doesn't have enough homegrown skills.

Cuts in "home grown" training from the mid 90's has created this problem.

Couple this with making nursing a "degree" entry job and the problems just mount up.

 

[sean_ork]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I agree that not many want Turkey in the EU but its already happening due to the strong position Turkey holds and its blatant blackmailing of the EU... look it up its not here say and these reports are been written across all the media so its not right or left wing propaganda.

There's no stealth mode method by which they can become full members - they won't be joining in 2020, nor is there a plan, just lots of political postulating to apease a currently handly located Country - that's all.

 

[andyb]

Re: EU - How will you vote given the latest "news"

I have to disagree, up to the mid 90's immigration was steady and manageable, then the floodgates were opened indefinately which saw over the next 2 decades a continued rise in immigration which at the present value of over 300 000 net per year is pushes our already buckling services and is openely agreed by both main parties to be too high to keep up with, it wasn't the fact that the infra-structure wasn't been kept up. Where you see area's with little influx against areas with large influx suffering the same it will make you think that immigration isn't the reason, what you need to look at is the migration effect on each of the services, if one town has a 2week waiting with its Doc's surgery and the next town doesn't then by word of mouth you get people migrating to other surgeries thus levelling out the effect across the board - this happens through the system and is a self balancing effect, couple this with local councils diverting funds with the same effect to level the playing field then you get an artificial picture that immigration doesn't contribute as a major factor - the building of the infrastructure is now too slow to keep up with immigration and with a shortage of skills to speed it up the only solution is to bring more immigration in .... it thus becomes the vicious circle we have now found ourselves in...

Both major parties now agree that we need to stem immigration in order for us to catch up, but here lies the problem, we don't have a say on it because Brussels has no interest in helping us out as its beneficial to the EU to see high immigration to UK as this diverts UK money into the EU making it stronger at our cost.

We are in a catch 22 that we cannot get out of without leaving the EU as they will not let us limit immigration, Cameron promised a referendom and if he couldn't get an agreement to limit immigration on the table he would vote to leave... now here's where it all backfired, he didn't expect to win with a Majority, he doesn't want to leave the EU and he hasn't got a deal that we didn't already have before, if we were to ask for a benefits break which is a far stretch from what he promised then all 28 members of the EU has to say yes and we already know of several refusing to entertain the idea... it leaves us one option to start repairing the damage done and that is to take back control of our borders amongst many other lost rights and vote for an exit... the scaremongering is coming from the stay in campaign saying 3million jobs losses etc.. all these numbers are just been plucked out of thin air and its almost impossible to calculate the job gains and losses... yes there will be some backlash from leaving but the possiblities of been independent see the UK with more prospects than staying in - we were one of the strongest nations in the world but over the last 40yrs that has been eroded away as we passed nearly all our important powers to Brussels... we cannot even trade freely with the rest of the world due to EU restrictions... and trade with not change whether we are in the EU or not ... it will continue pretty much the same as they sell more to us than we do them.

A long but good post Darkwood, at least you are putting forward an argument and not just stupid sound bites lifted from the front page of the Mail or Express.
Yes we have had immigration for ever, and it has had to be managed. Today is no different other than the rate of immigration, it has to be managed, not stopped.
This campaign to leave the EU is being driven by immigration and the benefits claimed, but most immigration to this country is from outside the EU so how will leaving change this. Also the clamour to stop in work benefits for 4 years can already be applied to non EU immigrants but not only are they not stopped but you don't see much call for this.
Don't forget that immigrants working here are paying tax and NI, also vat and growing the economy. More people means more infrastructure, this is paid for with the taxes being paid by the people who are being blamed for the problem.

I agree with what you say about Cameron, he did not think he'd win the election and the EU vote was to be a bargaining chip that he intended to use in negotiating with prospective coalition partners.