Hager Metal Consumer Units

[Sparkie30]

No wonder a lot of you have thousands of post. All you do is bang on about same stupid stuff. Well off topic.

 

[jackhammerJIM]

Absolute rubbish. There has also been a 400% rise in traffic wardens.

Did somebody say traffic wardens ...

[video=youtube;pPIr46MLZag]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPIr46MLZag[/video]

 

[Tommy C]

Bit late here... I do like the new Hager Design range. Previously we installed the Hager insulated range for domestic jobs as they are self extinguishing. I set fire to an MK insulated enclosure a while ago on purpose and when it got going it really went up.

The two things that I thought were responsible for the increase in fires are:

1. Rubbish quality switchgear. e.g. Volex recalls etc...
2. Incorrect / poor installation, we always terminate boards with a torque screwdriver.

It does stagger me the amount of dangerous and non compliant work carried out and the price some people will carry work out for (easy to make things work, difficult to make safe and compliant). Then they probably haven't spent £100.00 on a torque screwdriver!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Bit late here... I do like the new Hager Design range. Previously we installed the Hager insulated range for domestic jobs as they are self extinguishing. I set fire to an MK insulated enclosure a while ago on purpose and when it got going it really went up.

The two things that I thought were responsible for the increase in fires are:

1. Rubbish quality switchgear. e.g. Volex recalls etc...
2. Incorrect / poor installation, we always terminate boards with a torque screwdriver.

It does stagger me the amount of dangerous and non compliant work carried out and the price some people will carry work out for (easy to make things work, difficult to make safe and compliant). Then they probably haven't spent £100.00 on a torque screwdriver!

You don't need a torque screwdriver IMO, I've Been fine for years without one. I agree that shyte quality is a major contribution.

 

[Tommy C]

You don't need a torque screwdriver IMO, I've Been fine for years without one. I agree that shyte quality is a major contribution.

Truesay, but it's the best way to show someone how tight to do things up (especially if they are a bit weak wristed) and at least you are covering yourself.

Also it's the only mcb driver blade I have and fits the terminals lovely.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Truesay, but it's the best way to show someone how tight to do things up (especially if they are a bit weak wristed) and at least you are covering yourself.

Also it's the only mcb driver blade I have and fits the terminals lovely.

Do you find the manufacturers recommended torque setting can sometimes be to tight?

 

[Tommy C]

Not generally, but they do vary.

 

[D Skelton]

Given the considerable in depth research you have undertaken on the subject of this new 'requirement' please can you direct me to the evidence that has come to light that these CU fires are caused by Electrical Trainee? I ask out of genuine interest not as provocation. I still maintain that statistics can be manipulated read whatever a person wants. Politicians do it all the time.

Like I have said a thousand bloody times, there is no 'direct' evidence, however the numbers are clear to see for anyone who isn't burying their head in the sand!

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fire-statistics-great-britain-2013-to-2014

Do the research yourself. All the relevant numbers are there, no figure manipulation either.

Notice how fires caused by electrical distribution in dwellings is on a very very slow decline until 2005, the year that Part P was introduced, then notice a sharp rise.

I suppose this is just coincidence right?! I suppose the manufacturers just decided to start making their gear rubbish in 2005 and that's the cause right?!

Come on man, take your bleedin' blinkers off will you!

 

[UNG]

Bit late here... I do like the new Hager Design range. Previously we installed the Hager insulated range for domestic jobs as they are self extinguishing. I set fire to an MK insulated enclosure a while ago on purpose and when it got going it really went up.

The two things that I thought were responsible for the increase in fires are:

1. Rubbish quality switchgear. e.g. Volex recalls etc...
2. Incorrect / poor installation, we always terminate boards with a torque screwdriver.

It does stagger me the amount of dangerous and non compliant work carried out and the price some people will carry work out for (easy to make things work, difficult to make safe and compliant). Then they probably haven't spent £100.00 on a torque screwdriver!

And how often when that torque driver been dropped is it recalibrated or how many times do you check it's calibration might be a good tool but IMO needs too much ongoing maintenance to provide accurate and repeatable results

 

[Midwest]

Why did Hager provide a back cable entry plate, but nothing for their top & bottom entry boards. Grommet strip I know, but just seems a bit daft. And wholesalers seemed to struggle having in stock standard boards, but here you either have to have a back entry board or a top & bottom one. The Wylex one I've seen, just has standard knockouts. Not saying that's better, but don't think you be able to get a Hager one off the shelves. Hager one looks nicer than the Wylex though.

Just thought I'd try and get thread back on track

 

[Midwest]

(Somebody beat me to it). And what about cable entry for TT supply? Wylex provide 32mm black (yuck) plastic gland.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Not all blacks and blues are the same!






Why's my RCD tripping?

Errrr...... that was not a serious suggestion. You must be great fun at parties lol

 

[Engineer54]

No wonder a lot of you have thousands of post. All you do is bang on about same stupid stuff. Well off topic.

And of course you being a trainee would know all about what was, and what isn't stupid stuff, ...Right??

 

[shanky887614]

(Somebody beat me to it). And what about cable entry for TT supply? Wylex provide 32mm black (yuck) plastic gland.

there were some 2" plastic stuffing glands in eddys the other day, bring your swa in through that. (we regually use 20,25 and 32mm stuffers)


i dont see why people bother with torque drivers

i doubt you have one that will work to the set figure on all the gear you use so you will need multiple, do it up tight with a pz/sl and it will be fine (pz/sl is mcb driver)

 

[Knobhead]

The dash to fit smart meters has resulted in many installations being disturbed by unqualified “operatives”.

Two interesting points that are worth considering:

When did they start fitting these meters?
When did the dramatic rise in “fuse board” fires start?

To the best of my knowledge these meter fitters aren’t allowed to open a CU to check the tails they have disturbed. As for checking the terminations in the head, that I don’t know.

If the real source of the fire could be attributed to one of the three major components in an install, IE, the head, the meter or the CU then some logical conclusions could be reached.

Statistic recording the dates and location of meter installations and the dates and locations of “electrical fires” could prove interesting.

Looking at it, going back to metal service heads and meters would be the next logical step for the LFB to twist the IET’s limp wrist. But we all know that won’t happen because the DNO’s and energy companies will turn around and tell the IET they have no authority in the distribution industry and get stuffed.

 

[GB.Kayak]

The dash to fit smart meters has resulted in many installations being disturbed by unqualified “operatives”.

Two interesting points that are worth considering:

When did they start fitting these meters?
When did the dramatic rise in “fuse board” fires start?

To the best of my knowledge these meter fitters aren’t allowed to open a CU to check the tails they have disturbed. As for checking the terminations in the head, that I don’t know.

If the real source of the fire could be attributed to one of the three major components in an install, IE, the head, the meter or the CU then some logical conclusions could be reached.

Statistic recording the dates and location of meter installations and the dates and locations of “electrical fires” could prove interesting.

Looking at it, going back to metal service heads and meters would be the next logical step for the LFB to twist the IET’s limp wrist. But we all know that won’t happen because the DNO’s and energy companies will turn around and tell the IET they have no authority in the distribution industry and get stuffed.

Really good stuff T, the only concern that I have is that it is not only unskilled people on the installation side. It would not surprise me if many of those who investigate the causes of fires lack the inquiring mind, experience and time to really identify the actual cause; after all I suspect that real forensic investigations are rare. There is clearly significantly more to the current problems than de-skilling be that installers or distributors' staff, poor materials or design in the 'race to the bottom' on price, or the lack of records due to the 'chancers' in the game. The only saving grace in all of this is those amongst us who, whatever their training or route into this business, are professional in going about their business.

 

[GB.Kayak]

Like I have said a thousand bloody times, there is no 'direct' evidence, however the numbers are clear to see for anyone who isn't burying their head in the sand!

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/fire-statistics-great-britain-2013-to-2014

Do the research yourself. All the relevant numbers are there, no figure manipulation either.

Notice how fires caused by electrical distribution in dwellings is on a very very slow decline until 2005, the year that Part P was introduced, then notice a sharp rise.

I suppose this is just coincidence right?! I suppose the manufacturers just decided to start making their gear rubbish in 2005 and that's the cause right?!

Come on man, take your bleedin' blinkers off will you!

D, which document at this link were you looking at; the summary PDF did not seem to provide any trend data which supports your position. I have not looked into the spreadsheets due to being on an iPad and I lack the apps to do so, I also haven't downloaded them to my laptop to enable that.

 

[Midwest]

there were some 2" plastic stuffing glands in eddys the other day, bring your swa in through that. (we regually use 20,25 and 32mm stuffers

We might be at cross purposes, I was referring to entering a metal clad CU with double insulated meter tails, and the potential therein with TT supply. Hager makes no reference to any sort of manufactured remedy, nor does MK on their 3rd amendment CU's.

Even using the Wylex plastic gland, the potential of the tails (however small) shorting with metal of the CU before an RCD remains.

 

[Leesparkykent]

We might be at cross purposes, I was referring to entering a metal clad CU with double insulated meter tails, and the potential therein with TT supply. Hager makes no reference to any sort of manufactured remedy, nor does MK on their 3rd amendment CU's.

Even using the Wylex plastic gland, the potential of the tails (however small) shorting with metal of the CU before an RCD remains.

use a plastic wiska sprint gland with the correct insert and adequately support the tails with a clamp that is available in the hager range.

 

[Midwest]

That's the Hager one sorted then, but what about the others. Why is it down to us installers to make these products comply with the regs, when they end up on a wall. You wouldn't expect to buy an appliance with some wires hanging out of it and work out how to terminate to it. Everyone will have a different approach on how to comply with IP rating for cable entry for example. Seems these manufacturers make their rcd's, mcb's etc, and just chuck them in a box, metal or plastic. If some manufactuer had any sence, they would design something that covered all or some of the things mentioned
in this thread, nobody would install anything else. They would make a bomb.