I thought short courses were fine. Just done a week on site. Now i think they're not fit for purpose.

[Electrics]

This thread gives an interesting alternative view on the short courses and their potential short comings from someone who is actually on the sharp end, I'm looking forward to the updates as you progress and how long it will be before you are knocking the short courses as a seasoned professional

I would stick with the day release 2 or 3 evenings a week is hard going after a full day onsite, I did the final year of my C&G C certificate 3 evenings per week at college and it was hard going by the time you throw in some homework

Good luck with your journey and I hope it is all you expect it to be

Thanks for the advice mate, i'm always happy to admit when i'm wrong. Nobody gains knowledge by refusing to admit when they've made a mistake. In my ignorance i thought the courses would be fine, the reality of the real world working environment says differently.

You would get away with house bashing if you combined one of these courses + books + internet + forums + existing knowledge of house construction etc. With the regs books on hand and some testing and inspection experience i think basic 3 phase domestic would be fairly easy to achieve within a year on your own. But there is no way a guy like that is going to walk into a massive factory with gigantic incoming supply, about 10 different DB's and dozens of switchboards and comms units and know what he is doing. No way.

I think there needs to be a regulatory body who oversees and regulates it here (in Europe us and Netherlands are the only unregulated countries) and who can then distinguish between basic domestic installation and 'real' electricians.

In France they distinguish between the two. It's a 1200 hour course over 10 months, including 6 weeks full time on site with a company just to be able to do domestic. If you want to be an 'electrical technician' you then have to do an addition few thousand hour course that lasts from 12 to 18 months including a substantial work placement.

I think it's the way to go.

 

[LukeD]

Thanks for the advice mate, i'm always happy to admit when i'm wrong. Nobody gains knowledge by refusing to admit when they've made a mistake. In my ignorance i thought the courses would be fine, the reality of the real world working environment says differently.

You would get away with house bashing if you combined one of these courses + books + internet + forums + existing knowledge of house construction etc. With the regs books on hand and some testing and inspection experience i think basic 3 phase domestic would be fairly easy to achieve within a year on your own. But there is no way a guy like that is going to walk into a massive factory with gigantic incoming supply, about 10 different DB's and dozens of switchboards and comms units and know what he is doing. No way.

I think there needs to be a regulatory body who oversees and regulates it here (in Europe us and Netherlands are the only unregulated countries) and who can then distinguish between basic domestic installation and 'real' electricians.

In France they distinguish between the two. It's a 1200 hour course over 10 months, including 6 weeks full time on site with a company just to be able to do domestic. If you want to be an 'electrical technician' you then have to do an addition few thousand hour course that lasts from 12 to 18 months including a substantial work placement.

I think it's the way to go.

The whole construction industry is a joke in the UK.

 

[Electrics]

The whole construction industry is a joke in the UK.

I'd agree with that. Too little pride in work and too much corner cutting.

Also apprentices tend to be treated as dogsbody for half their apprenticeship and left to their own devices the other half. Seen it often where qualified people are clueless. I knew a time served decorator who couldn't hang lining paper properly.

 

[LukeD]

I'd agree with that. Too little pride in work and too much corner cutting.

Also apprentices tend to be treated as dogsbody for half their apprenticeship and left to their own devices the other half. Seen it often where qualified people are clueless. I knew a time served decorator who couldn't hang lining paper properly.

Its down to super poor training route and Private companies been in charge .The german method is far superior etc.

 

[Lister1987]

The electrical industry is so vast and varied that there is no way someone will learn everything. There is an obvious disadvantage to training Vs experience (courses (college or otherwise) Vs Apprenticeship), one is no good without the other and the onus is put on experience because that makes the money.

I've got that level 2&3 through college over the 2 years but have yet to find anyone willing to take a chance on me. I knew from the off that short courses were frowned on and figured getting knowledge before experience would help with gaining the latter; I mean surely you'd take on someone that knows the how and why a job is done and then ensuring they can apply it versus giving someone a screwdriver and babysitting them until they have it mastered?

The whole Apprenticeship route is screwed also, mostly due to the lower wage in Year 1 and the nigh on impossibility of 'flipping" to an apprenticeship after doing Level 2/3.

Until there is a change of mindset on the industry (both electrical and training sides), getting in without an apprenticeship is ridiculously difficult.

 

[Electrics]

The electrical industry is so vast and varied that there is no way someone will learn everything. There is an obvious disadvantage to training Vs experience (courses (college or otherwise) Vs Apprenticeship), one is no good without the other and the onus is put on experience because that makes the money.

I've got that level 2&3 through college over the 2 years but have yet to find anyone willing to take a chance on me. I knew from the off that short courses were frowned on and figured getting knowledge before experience would help with gaining the latter; I mean surely you'd take on someone that knows the how and why a job is done and then ensuring they can apply it versus giving someone a screwdriver and babysitting them until they have it mastered?

The whole Apprenticeship route is screwed also, mostly due to the lower wage in Year 1 and the nigh on impossibility of 'flipping" to an apprenticeship after doing Level 2/3.

Until there is a change of mindset on the industry (both electrical and training sides), getting in without an apprenticeship is ridiculously difficult.

To be honest my goal longer term is to work for myself so in your situation i'd just go for it and start up on my own. Can't be relying on others to give you a chance, you have to make your own luck sometimes. If you've got the theory knowledge then the experience will come through doing. Much harder with nobody on site to turn to but not impossible especially if you're only doing domestic.

Why not do this: start your own company, get the work rolling in and take on a fully qualified man to work alongside you. Then you hired your own mentor.

 

[DPG]

To be honest my goal longer term is to work for myself so in your situation i'd just go for it and start up on my own. Can't be relying on others to give you a chance, you have to make your own luck sometimes. If you've got the theory knowledge then the experience will come through doing. Much harder with nobody on site to turn to but not impossible especially if you're only doing domestic.

Why not do this: start your own company, get the work rolling in and take on a fully qualified man to work alongside you. Then you hired your own mentor.

But you would still need to have enough knowledge and experience to know that the guy is doing a proper job.

 

[Lister1987]

But you would still need to have enough knowledge and experience to know that the guy is doing a proper job.

Valid point, the biggest worries are being able to do the job to a decent enough standard, if you've only had college experience and no site experience then you're effectively putting customers as your learning curve and that just don't sit right with me. Being able to generate enough work to sustain your family and business and thr biggest one for me is my body being able to take it. If I end up working for someone else doing testing etc then that's fine; Thr industry is bigger than just being on the tools, just gotta find my place.

 

[UNG]

The electrical industry is so vast and varied that there is no way someone will learn everything.

But how much does someone need to learn to be an electrician, while the industry is vast it is all interconnected by wires of various sizes and there are a lot of common areas across all the sectors. I don't subscribe to the "I only want to do domestic so single phase 230v is enough for me" when a number of the larger domestic properties I have worked on had a 3 phase incomer. Then again a single phase incomer is derived from the 3 phase supply running down the street so how much do you really need to know and understand of this vast industry
The fact is these days the internet provides a crutch to prop up the lack of knowledge, training and experience

Why not do this: start your own company, get the work rolling in and take on a fully qualified man to work alongside you. Then you hired your own mentor.

Do you really think that would work

 

[Electrics]

Do you really think that would work

There's no rule that says i need to be an expert in electrics to start an electrical company. Someone who's just good at admin could do that, and employ someone who knows what they're talking about and pay them a wage to do the hands on stuff and pricing etc.

I had a friend who started a company outsourcing coding to bigger companies. He knew nothing about programming and simply hired people who did - he was just a businessman starting a business.

No reason you couldn't do that as the business owner and then also work in your own company as a mate.

It'd be a faff to set up but obviously it's doable.